Are guns PM

Allthatglitters said:
As an Australian and as someone who is very familiar with the USA I am a little embarrassed by some of the comments on this tread. To the American posters let me say that not all Australians feel this way, although they are a small part of the population. What you have to know is that Australians have never had to win their freedom as Americans did through the blood of the Revolution and the Civil War, we had it handed to us at Federation. As a result most Australians don't really have well developed sense of individual freedom and liberty. Australia has been a quasi-socialist welfare state for generations. If you need any proof of this just remember the fact that more than 50% of Australian families receive more in government benefits than they pay in tax. Australians rely upon the government to provide everything to them, be it personal defence, social housing, welfare payment, free this or that. Our most conservative parties are more aligned to the Democratic Party in America than anything on the right in America. Yes, we love American movies and fashion and may even look the same but as a whole we don't have the same ingrained mind set.
Australians on the whole are a very timid, weak and compliant society. More so in the inner subrubs of our major cities. If our government imposes a law we will comply regardless of whether it imposes on our individual personal rights and freedoms. We don't have a Bill of Rights! Most people have come to accept this. That is why if the Government were to introduce a law tomorrow that confiscated all personal gold and silver holding of Australians it would be very easy to enforce.
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Completely agree.
 
Jim4silver I have not had a chance to read some of your back post's - Wile I see mentioning Guns brings an onslaught of views of different opinions (understandable) I'd hope my Gun post was not the straw that broke the Camels back.

You say
I have enjoyed my time here but I am tired of always being the guy arguing with countless posters

What can really be argued - concerning Gold and silver

You also say
You all have fun and good luck with your silver/gold
So do you stack ? if you do your words seem off.

I think you should keep learning and not give up here . This Forum is a place to learn of ones self
& stay inspired to keep stacking
------------------
The loaded gun concept .
When you have kids ( I do ) you will not have peace of mind having a loaded gun
casually in a draw . A secret spot maybe .
But there other factors how many rooms you have .
Lets go with a hypothetical
you have a loaded gun in bedroom .
There can be scenario's that prevent you from being in the bedroom at a moment of crisis .

I want protection in the event of social melt down & that is unlikely . But if $1000 sets you up
with a few pieces and ammo. Then it's a personal decision - is it money well spent.
One may never know . Any way , there fun to shoot once in a wile
& requires skill for proficiency
I believe if you have a clean record & your a sensible person who can keep a gun safely
why not have at least a basic shot gun
you may never need it but god forbid you ever need one and did not put
the needed effort in to have it.
 
Post #38
This may have some truth to it .
Still I think the government may protect or try to protect
it's citizens better .

Timid might not be completely it
Australians might be more patriotic & have more faith
in there leaders .
 
On a light hearted note.
Yes, guns can be PM. Anyone who has had the privilege to view custom made shotguns or big game rifles knows that they are a true works of art in every detail. However, even production guns can be PM. Collectible gun prices have skyrocketed in the last decade. Let's take 19th century Colts.
A Colt Paterson Long-Barrel Revolver sold for $977,500 USD in 2011. It would be worth far more than that if auctioned today. It weighs approximately 36 oz t. That is $27,152.7 per oz t. Gold at the time of writing is $1255 USD a oz t. That is approximately 21.6 times the price of gold. That is precious metal in anyone's language.
 
Bastiat said:
Allthatglitters said:
As an Australian and as someone who is very familiar with the USA I am a little embarrassed by some of the comments on this tread. To the American posters let me say that not all Australians feel this way, although they are a small part of the population. What you have to know is that Australians have never had to win thei freedom as Americans did through the blood of the Revolution and the Civil War, we had it handed to us at Federation. As a result most Australians don't really have well developed sense of individual freedom and liberty. Australia has been a quasi-socialist welfare state for generations. If you need any proof of this just remember the fact that more than 50% of Australian families receive more in government benefits than they pay in tax. Australians rely upon the government to provide everything to them, be it personal defence, social housing, welfare payment, free this or that. Our most conservative parties are more aligned to the Democratic Party in America than anything on the right in America. Yes, we love American movies and fashion and may even look the same but as a whole we don't have the same ingrained mind set.
Australians on the whole are a very timid, weak and compliant society. More so in the inner subrubs of our major cities. If our government imposes a law we will comply regardless of whether it imposes on our individual personal rights and freedoms. We don't have a Bill of Rights! Most people have come to accept this. That is why if the Government were to introduce a law tomorrow that confiscated all personal gold and silver holding of Australians it would be very easy to enforce.
Click to expand...
Completely agree.
Click to expand...

Bollocks.

Yes we have a welfaire state, but wanna check out the figures for US food stamp distribution? It's not significantly different? Won't stand up against laws? Howards work reform laws brought down a government whether you agree or disagree with them and it's not the first time a whole government has been turfed at the drop off a hat because the people demanded it, can't remember that happening in the US recently, maybe nixon. That's real people in the streets demanding liberty.

I don't have anything but respect for the beautiful words and ideas in the both the declaration of independence or the bill of rights, but tee fact that we created a civil, less violent society without two bloody and horrific wars is something to be celebrated not looked down on.

Before you start calling anyone weak, nobody on earth is more respected as as fighting man than the Austrlian.infantryman. I've met them in RSLs all over. Bobby, who I had the privelage to know, was on the Burma railroad, conscripted from an ordinary life from an inner city suburb, but obviously things were different back then right? They're always better "back then". 5 wars ordinary kids including from those inner suburbs were called up like it or not and proved their metal. In wars and peace keeping missions since volunteers, kids from the backgrounds you deride have done the same. I know some.

Meanwhile the idea that personal gun ownership has had one iota of influence on personal liberty in the United states where intelligence budgets to access every aspect of your life is simply laughable. That they would help a well regulated militia in fight against the US military is even more laughable (gun owners being one of the largest voting blocks for larger military/inter and LEO budgets btw). A contingent of national guard from whatever state you choose with hand me down weapons and weekend training are going to make anything a Bundy boy puts together look silly. Gun ownership does lead to swat raids to enforce parking tickets and the militirization of police and I don't see any relationship between those 2 US wars (plus french indian wars and the war of 1812) and anyone in the the US doing anything about civil forfeiture.


Again, love shooting, great sport, lots of fun, but gun homicides in the US and mass shootings vs bad guys stopped by civilians with a CCW or in an open carry state are common and rare in that order and the stats bare out that almost no gun owner will ever get anywhere near a serious crime that they stop with their firearm, plenty will kill themselves or a family member instead of an intruder though (no not the crazy high figure of like 40 something times, better larger research shows its only 270%, pick a lower number if you like and can find s well researched one, I know I'd rather have a better chance at not killing someone I love than let a guy get my Xbox).

It's their system let them have it, I love almost to a person every American I've ever met, I'm going there for a long holiday and expect to love it, as I have my previous long trips there but change and individual liberties are no more at risk here than there. Less money in politics, it's smaller, people generally get what the majority want here so far as that's possible anywhere.

What's your point? We're not angry enough? What's that bred anywhere? I see a fractured GOP that would make Reagan weep. If we're not taking over nature reserves it's because a meeting with most local members actually gets something done here, I've seen it from inside and out, if you feel disenchanted or disenfranchised maybe you should try participating. If you think a 15 year old from Atlanta has some special attitude that a 15 year old from Sydney doesn't I'd like to hear more about it.

I have plenty of gripes with Australian society as well, but this vague yankophile attitude doesn't fly with me when it comes to the basic character of an Australian.
 
Post #46
I wasn't going to respond to your post as I was struggling to find a coherent argument in most of it. Particularly, the sections on guns. If you read my post carefully you will see that I was not really even talking about guns. I was talking about the difference in the frame of mind of Australians and Americans. If anything I was talking about PMs as can be seen if you read the last line. In that respect my post was a bit off topic.

Now my second post did address the topic and very well I thought.
 
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