mmm....shiney! said:
The NAP has gone out the window, Libertarianism is based on it. Could be a major issue.
Anything That's Peaceful
- Thread starter bordsilver
- Start date
The NAP has gone out the window, Libertarianism is based on it. Could be a major issue.
Yep, your complete denial of the fact of natural monopolies in that thread really deserved no other response. It had descended into farce, like a debate on creationism which is also deservedly treated as a joke. If you simply refuse to debate relationally then what do you expect?bordsilver said:
@Newtosilver, seeing as you made mention of the might-equals-rght system of social organisation in a previous post maybe you can tell me whether it would have the NAP at the cornerstone of its structure.
How has the NAP "gone out of the window"? From what you have stated third hand they are acting to obtain justice which is a legitimate use of force. Without knowing the actual situation trying to draw conclusions is usually fraught.Newtosilver said:
SilverPete said:
Now is always a good time for one or more of your personalities to take a refresher course: http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-58257-how-to-avoid-logical-fallacies.html
@bordie, sorry mate, I'm encouraging the derailment of this thread.
SilverPete said:
I would've thought the NAP was the most cogent argument, no other is required.
Except that you were unable to prove any existence and were the one who resorted to insults (have I ever initiated insults or slander against you?). But we can go back to the other thread and continue where we left off: The term "natural monopoly" is meaningless. It is simply natural advantage (which if priced wrongly will be lost).SilverPete said:
Edit:
Derailment was certain to happen eventually on a topic such as this.mmm....shiney! said:
Will just try to keep it on a semi-consistent heading.
+1.mmm....shiney! said:
As they say, there are many paths that lead people to the NAP - including Hoppe's argumentation ethics, consequentialism (which I believe was Hayek's and Mises preference), natural rights philosophy (by the likes of John Locke, John Stuart Mill, Bastiat, Lysander Spooner etc) and even Ayn Rand's Objectivism. Although I personally prefer the argument from the natural right of self-ownership, I find the reinforcing nature of the other reasons gratifying. Indeed, David Friedman's anarcho-capitalism has the NAP as a natural outcome of the removal of illegitimate authority. As much as the Marxists and Geolibertarians say that they agree with the NAP, the real world implementation of their political philosophies violates the natural right of self-ownership and results in far more misery than they hope to solve.
bordsilver said:
How can it be a legitimate use of force? Members of the community do not believe Ken Johnson has done anything wrong, they believe he could just be incompetent. Are you advocating the use of force against people who are incompetant? How do you know Ken is guilty of fraud?
If someone is standing on your front lawn with your TV you would be justified in using force? How do you know they were not just walking past your house and saw it on the lawn and we're going to return it to you?
If people start "acting to obtain justice" what happens when the wrong people are the subject of your "justice"? I thought they would have to go to a court to establish innocence or guilt before punishment is applied.
This is rediculous, Libertarianism is full of holes big enough to drive a truck through.
My last post in this thread, this really is a huge waste of time. Talking about Libertarianism is like talking about if elves are better than dragons.
Newtosilver said:
Dragons are better.
Let's face it the Bedwetters here would never be able to nor handle taking responsibility for themselves nor their own actions and relevant outcomes.
They are far too accustomed to being told what to do , how to act, when to do what and would be lost without the relevant authoritarian regulation of their lives.
It is quite clear they are unable to grasp that just because X option is or would be now open to them or others that individuals would foresee the inevitable outcome and refrain from doing so, That individuals would act on a no harm basis in their own self interest's along with their society's best outcome.
Most arguments against seem to be a reflection of their own projections and negate the fact that in the past Charity, Anti Racism, Orphanages, Hospital and medicinal care were all voluntary actions set up and funded not by the Gov't but by individuals who cared deeply about others and their society. That major advances in western civilisation came about through the acts of individual entrepreneurs despite Gov'ts rather than because of them and that major leaps in technology and advances in science did likewise.
Real Capitalism and Libertarianism go hand in hand, and are in essence what the western world is based upon despite the interference of gov't.
The current era is nothing more than a backwater of continual legislation and impediment that ensures the squeakiest wheel gets the funding no matter the outcome.
They are far too accustomed to being told what to do , how to act, when to do what and would be lost without the relevant authoritarian regulation of their lives.
It is quite clear they are unable to grasp that just because X option is or would be now open to them or others that individuals would foresee the inevitable outcome and refrain from doing so, That individuals would act on a no harm basis in their own self interest's along with their society's best outcome.
Most arguments against seem to be a reflection of their own projections and negate the fact that in the past Charity, Anti Racism, Orphanages, Hospital and medicinal care were all voluntary actions set up and funded not by the Gov't but by individuals who cared deeply about others and their society. That major advances in western civilisation came about through the acts of individual entrepreneurs despite Gov'ts rather than because of them and that major leaps in technology and advances in science did likewise.
Real Capitalism and Libertarianism go hand in hand, and are in essence what the western world is based upon despite the interference of gov't.
The current era is nothing more than a backwater of continual legislation and impediment that ensures the squeakiest wheel gets the funding no matter the outcome.
"Quoted for truth" - I had to look that up.boyd_05 said:
Gratuitous advert - The 3rd Annual ALS Friedman Conference
Sydney, 2-3 May 2015
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Sydney, 2-3 May 2015
The Early Bird special is just $200 for concession, or $250 for adults. This is amazing value, and includes 2 full days of conference, and a 3 course dinner with 4 hour wine package at the Gala Dinner.
I've been to previous ones of these (and the annual Mises conference) over the years. Highly recommended as such great value. You generally even meet other SilverStackers members there 
bordsilver said:I've been to previous ones of these (and the annual Mises conference) over the years. Highly recommended as such great value. You generally even meet other SilverStackers members there
Can't be a Libertarian conference, there's no seminars on "Keeping hyenas as pets", "Mummy wants a flame thrower to take shopping", "Denying reality" and "Refusing to debate rationally: dismissing the many personalities of the schizophrenic".
I know! Bordy and Shiny are so eloquent and logical while all the people advocating against freedom and personal responsibility keep just throwing out fallacy after fallacy.SilverPete said:
"So in a libertarian world I could go to food courts and attack people with a flamethrower? That sounds awesome!" pls gtfo pls
I started reading Brave New World yesterday and I'm only a few chapters in, but it's fascinating reading all the arguments against freedom while reading about a fictionalised form of indoctrination used to convince people that things like freedom are wrong... Very prophetic.