Allocated Programs for speculation.

JulieW

JulieW

Well-Known Member
Silver Stacker
A somewhat strange post: I've run through the SS archives on this but I'm wondering how much times have changed with allocated as the best option for speculation. (zero interested in ETFs)

So, as above, I'm pondering a speculative position using an allocated metals program, most likely with Perth Mint, (though there are a number of Bullion Now fans who may have reason to go there).

Previously I've simply used physical gold in my hands as a safe savings program. Now it seems to me that some speculation in gold could be potentially very rewarding. (if I can overcome my "goldbug" disposition!).

So can anyone offer wise guidance, or suggestions on the PM program - the pros and cons?
 
I've been using Perth Mint online depository since it started and it generally works well and spreads are pretty tight.
Downsides are:
1) It'll cost you 1% of your stack a year in allocated fees.
2) You'd only get them delivered under exceptional circumstances as it's quite expensive.
3) Their portfolio tracking graph tool sucks, bordering on useless. As does their order history system which can't even tell you what price you bought your metal at, you have to do the division yourself.

I wouldn't use anything else, as the government guarantee can't be beat, especially for the zero fee unallocated.
But at present the smallest allocated gold product they offer is 20oz, but that can change almost daily. Some days they'll add more 1oz, other days 5oz, but they quickly sell out.
 
I used to have PM depository, but switched to PMGOLD.ASX, as it's much more convenient basically same as Depository, and still physically backed and deliverable, but can trade in 1/100's oz and do it at the click of a mouse. Liquidity is sometimes lowish which can effect spreads, but no worse than depository spreads.
 
I am also interested in this topic as I have only ever bought physical metal.

Reading through the fees of Allocated at Perth Mint it shows that it costs you 2% to Buy and 1% to Sell. Then there are storage fees of 1% P/A. So lets say you buy 50K of gold, keep it 1 year and sell out. Buy fee is $1,000, Sell Fee is $500 and storage Fee is $500 for the year. The total is $2,000 for a 50K lot. This seems to be a very high fee to me.

Ideally what I would like to do is get in and get out quickly with the least amount of fees. What options would be best for me? PMGOLD, GOLD (listed on the ASX) or unallocated at Perth Mint? Or is there a better way for me to achieve my end goal?
 
Allocated is where you own particular bars of the size you choose, and is the most expensive way to go, but your asset would also be the most secure if the mint went down.

Pool Allocated is similar to Allocated except you'll own a share of a pile of metal and not particular bars of your choosing. It's also a bit cheaper.

Depository on Line is unallocated metal and has up to 1% buy and sell fees, and no annual fee.

The Perth Mint's unallocated phone account is the same as the Depository on line account except you need to phone the Perth Mint to place orders. Fees are between 1 and 2%, except if you have at least $50K in your account there's no buy or sell fees and no storage fees. So if you have $50K this is the cheapest way to buy and store PMs. The only cost you have is the very reasonable buy and sell spread.

PMGOLD traded on the ASX share market, is the same as unallocated gold, but comes with a 0.15% annual fee, and no buy or sell fee (except brokerage). The advantage with this is you might be able to buy or sell at better prices as your trading with other people like yourself. A bit like Silver Stackers except you pay a brokerage fee instead of postage.

Perth Mint's Goldpass is a phone app with fees similar to Depository on Line, but has the added bonus that you can send it to other people with the Goldpass app for no fee. To me this looks really good as it could actually be used as fee free money, and we just need more people to take it up to be more feasible.

Goldpass can also be converted to a Perth Mint cryptocurrency called Perth Mint Gold Token (PMGT), that can be traded on a cryptocurrency exchange like any other cryptocurrency such as Bitcoin. I believe it's a very small market at the moment, but this should improve with time.
 
Silverling said:
Ideally what I would like to do is get in and get out quickly with the least amount of fees. What options would be best for me? PMGOLD, GOLD (listed on the ASX) or unallocated at Perth Mint? Or is there a better way for me to achieve my end goal?
Click to expand...

Yes, unallocated. Zero storage fees.
BTW, it's not 2% buy for Australians, it's 1% buy and sell fee. Overseas is 2% buy 1% sell.
 
GoldenEye said:
The Perth Mint's unallocated phone account is the same as the Depository on line account except you need to phone the Perth Mint to place orders. Fees are between 1 and 2%, except if you have at least $50K in your account there's no buy or sell fees and no storage fees.
Click to expand...

Incorrect, the storage fees are the same as for the online account, it's not free.
https://www.perthmint.com/storage/pricing.html
 
SilverDJ said:
Incorrect, the storage fees are the same as for the online account, it's not free.
https://www.perthmint.com/storage/pricing.html
Click to expand...
No, I was correct; there is no fee. See below the fees I just pasted from the Perth Mint's site using your link.
Storage fees
The following storage fees apply for our Depository Online, Depository Program and Certificate Program:
Unallocated
Gold 0%
Silver 0%
Platinum 0%
 
Looking at all of that Allocated is still too expensive. In all reality I will probably never get to to a 50K account so I would have to pay those fees.

PMGOLD seems the one for me. $20 in and $20 out in brokerage and low yearly management fees of .15% P/A and Guaranteed. Am I right in that? Or am I missing something?

I notice Perth Mint doesn't have a silver ETF. So what do forum members do for a Silver ETF?
 
Silverling said:
Looking at all of that Allocated is still too expensive. In all reality I will probably never get to to a 50K account so I would have to pay those fees.

PMGOLD seems the one for me. $20 in and $20 out in brokerage and low yearly management fees of .15% P/A and Guaranteed. Am I right in that? Or am I missing something?

I notice Perth Mint doesn't have a silver ETF. So what do forum members do for a Silver ETF?
Click to expand...
For PMGOLD they claim to have the equivalent gold as backing, so it's probably safer than under the mattress, and 0.15% is also a lot cheaper than paying for a safety deposit box for most people. It's also a lot easier doing it all on your computer than making an appointment to go to your SDB and standing in a queue, and then finding a buyer.

I haven't been able to find a silver investment similar to PMGOLD, so unallocated at the Mint or a Bullion Dealer is probably the nearest equivalent for Australia.
 
GoldenEye said:
No, I was correct; there is no fee. See below the fees I just pasted from the Perth Mint's site using your link.
Storage fees
The following storage fees apply for our Depository Online, Depository Program and Certificate Program:
Unallocated
Gold 0%
Silver 0%
Platinum 0%
Click to expand...

Yes, unallocated is, but this thread is about Allocated, which is NOT zero storage fee, from the exact same link:
Unallocated is also free for the online despository.

upload_2020-4-1_16-8-30.png
 
Silverling said:
Looking at all of that Allocated is still too expensive. In all reality I will probably never get to to a 50K account so I would have to pay those fees.
PMGOLD seems the one for me. $20 in and $20 out in brokerage and low yearly management fees of .15% P/A and Guaranteed. Am I right in that? Or am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Yes, but stock markets are getting shut down all the time these days, and AFAIK it's not the Perth Mint that's going to buy your PMGOLD shares, it's other investors, and those investors could vanish at any time.
 
SilverDJ said:
Yes, unallocated is, but this thread is about Allocated, which is NOT zero storage fee, from the exact same link:
Unallocated is also free for the online despository.

View attachment 35915
Click to expand...
No the OP's question seemed to be about various PM programs: "So can anyone offer wise guidance, or suggestions on the PM program - the pros and cons?" So from this question it looked to me that JulieW was open to all sorts of ideas.

Anyhow, even if the OP only asked for info on allocated, I'm not sure why providing additional information on other options might be a problem?
 
For Gold speculation, your better off putting your money in gold mining stocks, they are cheap compared to the gold price now. The spreads at Perth Mint now are very wide.

Anyway I think gold is too expensive now, still almost at record high, you should go and speculate in oil, ratio is 80:1 which is a record divergence. Try ooo.asx
 
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