About that safety deposit box debate....

Have you ever considered that many people may even lie about their SDB,s and safes?

Nobody wants to "announce" they have pms in their home/property on a public forum lol

Choose your own path! follow no one and accept responsibilities for your actions "simples" lol

people amaze me lol
 
col0016 said:
Do you have to tell them what is in it? Or would you just choose a dollar amount that you want it insured for?
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From what I know, it's simply a matter of choosing the level of cover required, and then paying the premium. If memory serves, it's around $40 per year per $10,000 coverage.

You do not need to disclose what is contained in the box. I am not sure what happens if one were to declare a higher amount than the actual items (barring rounding up to nearest $10,000), so, what would happen if one stored a paperclip in there and insured it for $100,000... I guess the only choice of the insurer would be to pay the $100,000 as they'd have no recourse to do otherwise (and you did pay the premiums).
 
Midnight Man said:
col0016 said:
Do you have to tell them what is in it? Or would you just choose a dollar amount that you want it insured for?
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From what I know, it's simply a matter of choosing the level of cover required, and then paying the premium. If memory serves, it's around $40 per year per $10,000 coverage.

You do not need to disclose what is contained in the box. I am not sure what happens if one were to declare a higher amount than the actual items (barring rounding up to nearest $10,000), so, what would happen if one stored a paperclip in there and insured it for $100,000... I guess the only choice of the insurer would be to pay the $100,000 as they'd have no recourse to do otherwise (and you did pay the premiums).
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I don't think it's that easy here in the US. I spoke to an insurance agent about insuring PM's stored in a SDB or at a home in a secure, somewhat decent large gun safe (definitely not a T-60, but not a cheapy firesafe box), and they said it would require an itemized list and appraisal by a legit coin dealer (I don't remember what certification they required).

You can't just buy some insurance on your PM's, then make a claim and say "I had this much.....".

Just my opinion.

Jim
 
Jim4silver said:
Midnight Man said:
From what I know, it's simply a matter of choosing the level of cover required, and then paying the premium. If memory serves, it's around $40 per year per $10,000 coverage.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's that easy here in the US. I spoke to an insurance agent about insuring PM's stored in a SDB or at a home in a secure, somewhat decent large gun safe
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In the scenario described above the insurance is actually provided through the SDB company itself.
The company has a master policy with an insurer with a basic cover per customer and then provides additional coverage for an extra fee.
Obviously a claim could only be made if the SDB facility was compromised somehow.

You might find private SDB facilities in the US might have similar insurance arrangements - I don't know.
 
trew said:
In the scenario described above the insurance is actually provided through the SDB company itself.
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Thanks trew, I was just about to post something similar in response to Jim4Silver's comments, and I think you've hit the nail smack on the head with your analysis :)
 
Midnight Man said:
trew said:
In the scenario described above the insurance is actually provided through the SDB company itself.
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Thanks trew, I was just about to post something similar in response to Jim4Silver's comments, and I think you've hit the nail smack on the head with your analysis :)
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Actually guys, I was talking about a BANK sdb, not a private company that strictly rents boxes. My bank DOES NOT offer insurance on what's in the boxes, instead you must contact your OWN insurance company. I would personally never use a private (non bank) sdb, but that is just me.

It seems many miss the point of physical PM's, and that is avoiding counter-party risk. "If you don't hold it, you don't own it". Yes, that is even true if my stuff is in a bank SDB, but I do take that risk for now, since I've banked there many years and it is close to home so I take that chance. In a private SDB with THEIR insurance, you've now got two levels of counter-party risk: 1. Will the place stay open and not go bankrupt and 2. If they do go under, you now have to hope the insurance co. will pay your claim. If I have PM's in hand that is not a worry.

I have enough of my $$$$ in paper assets held in banks, financial institutions, etc, so that my PM's (other than what's in the sdb) are under MY control. My insurance for the little I keep at home is under the care of Smith and Wesson, and Glock.

Just my opinion.

Jim
 
Jim4silver said:
It seems many miss the point of physical PM's, and that is avoiding counter-party risk. "If you don't hold it, you don't own it". Yes, that is even true if my stuff is in a bank SDB, but I do take that risk for now <snip>
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Whilst I respect your opinion, I would argue that a bank SDB is riskier than a private facility.

We all now know that banks in at least 2 countries have closed their doors to the public - one somewhat more expected than the other, admittedly. Yet I cannot think of the last time I heard of a private vaulting facility shutting their clients off from their boxes.

I would also argue (at least in Australia) that it would be far easier for the government to decide to confiscate SDB contents from a bank than a private facility (if only based on the number of bank vs non-bank boxes - when shooting with a shotgun, you go for the 90/10 rule - 90% of targets hit with 10% effort is a good result).
 
Midnight Man said:
Jim4silver said:
It seems many miss the point of physical PM's, and that is avoiding counter-party risk. "If you don't hold it, you don't own it". Yes, that is even true if my stuff is in a bank SDB, but I do take that risk for now <snip>
Click to expand...

Whilst I respect your opinion, I would argue that a bank SDB is riskier than a private facility.

We all now know that banks in at least 2 countries have closed their doors to the public - one somewhat more expected than the other, admittedly. Yet I cannot think of the last time I heard of a private vaulting facility shutting their clients off from their boxes.

I would also argue (at least in Australia) that it would be far easier for the government to decide to confiscate SDB contents from a bank than a private facility (if only based on the number of bank vs non-bank boxes - when shooting with a shotgun, you go for the 90/10 rule - 90% of targets hit with 10% effort is a good result).
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When banks close here, they are taken over by a new bank and the new bank is open by Monday (takes over at close of business on Friday). I am not aware of any US banks seizing SDB's except in some cases by error, which would give a person a cause of action against the bank assuming they paid their fee for the box properly, etc. If someone is involved in crime or gets a judgment against them, a bank SDB can be seized.

Private facilities here do go bankrupt and have "robberies" of their vaults far more than bank SDBs do. I don't know if anyone has lost their stuff due to these incidences.



http://www.reviewjournal.com/john-l-smith/robbery-cuts-hours-and-credibility-247-private-vaults

http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/24518179/customers-sought-after-vault-business-files-bankruptcy


Remember this one from a few years back?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/16335m-seized-in-deposit-vault-raid-1653369.html



Just my opinion.

Jim
 
Since you've only joined recently I'll mention that there has been a spate of robberies in the Brisbane area of Australia over the past 3 years or so of members of this forum, so the risk of getting your stack stolen from home is very real.
 
Jim4silver said:
My insurance for the little I keep at home is under the care of Smith and Wesson, and Glock.
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That's great for when you are at home but when you are at work or on vacation, you ought to have some other form of risk reduction. I'd recommend a moat and alligators. :)



Edit: I thought "mote" didn't look right



.
 
mmissinglink said:
Jim4silver said:
My insurance for the little I keep at home is under the care of Smith and Wesson, and Glock.
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That's great for when you are at home but when you are at work or on vacation, you ought to have some other form of risk reduction. I'd recommend a mote and alligators. :)




.
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I like your thinking!

Jim
 
Any update BB? on Greece bank deposit boxes. In view of reports that banks may be closed for 6-8 weeks is a bank deposit box the best idea for long term storage as compared to a private insured vault service ?
 
I'm guessing it would work something like this if I was in Greece (but I'm in Canada so maybe I'm completely off the mark here)

I need say 500 extra Euro's to help pay my brother's rent.
I'd go down to my safe, grab say 25 to 30 oz's of silver coins.
The coins are Canadian Maples, marked with the 9999 pure, so anybody that knows coins knows it's legit.

I go to the coin dealer that I've been dealing with for years.
this coin dealer has Euro's in his safe alright.
I think coin dealers would be ready to have both PM's and cash on hand to deal around.

Sure premiums will vary, but I'm pretty sure that I'll have the 500 Euro's I need by trading with my trusted coin dealer a few oz's of silver.

Wish a stacker from Greece could confirm if dealings like this happen there these days.
 
banks kept their metals said:
I'm guessing it would work something like this if I was in Greece (but I'm in Canada so maybe I'm completely off the mark here)

I need say 500 extra Euro's to help pay my brother's rent.
I'd go down to my safe, grab say 25 to 30 oz's of silver coins.
The coins are Canadian Maples, marked with the 9999 pure, so anybody that knows coins knows it's legit.

I go to the coin dealer that I've been dealing with for years.
this coin dealer has Euro's in his safe alright.
I think coin dealers would be ready to have both PM's and cash on hand to deal around.

Sure premiums will vary, but I'm pretty sure that I'll have the 500 Euro's I need by trading with my trusted coin dealer a few oz's of silver.

Wish a stacker from Greece could confirm if dealings like this happen there these days.
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If the local coin dealer was out of cash you could probably take a train to a neighboring EU country and swap some silver for cash. In fact, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a stacker community across the EU that could help with that.
 
Bullion Baron said:
Ronnie 666 said:
Any update BB? on Greece bank deposit boxes. In view of reports that banks may be closed for 6-8 weeks is a bank deposit box the best idea for long term storage as compared to a private insured vault service ?
Click to expand...
Yep, quite the inconvenience at the moment (will have to wait and see if it turns into anything more).

Can you point to any private safe deposit box facilities that remain open in Greece?
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As I don't live in Athens its hard to comment. I agree that many Australian bullion dealers and private vaults will also close if banks shut down here. Also shops and other merchants would not remain open long. You have what you have until they re-open. Then who knows ?
'
 
banks kept their metals said:
I'm guessing it would work something like this if I was in Greece (but I'm in Canada so maybe I'm completely off the mark here)
I need say 500 extra Euro's to help pay my brother's rent.
I'd go down to my safe, grab say 25 to 30 oz's of silver coins.
The coins are Canadian Maples, marked with the 9999 pure, so anybody that knows coins knows it's legit.
I go to the coin dealer that I've been dealing with for years.
this coin dealer has Euro's in his safe alright.
I think coin dealers would be ready to have both PM's and cash on hand to deal around.
Click to expand...

Why not just keep cash? (as well as PM's)
Keeping only PM's for such eventualities is silly. During such problems only cash matters, PM's can become expensive door stops.
 
You got it, I do keep a few months worth of cash in both CAD and USD currencies for emergencies, along with PM's.
I also have some in Safety Deposit boxes, actually, I have a safety deposit box in 2 countries (and USA is not one of them).

Need to keep your options open.
 
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