A simple idea. Could this work?

L

Lunty

New Member
Silver Stacker
Hi stackers,

How many of you have spent god knows how long looking and surfing for the best deal from bullion dealers on the net?
This got me thinking about a site that compares dealers. Could this work on a bullion level?
Something like this.
http://www.ratecity.com.au/savings-accounts
Imagine one site where 10 or more good Australian dealers are wanting to give you, the buyer the best rate over spot price for gold and silver coins and bars and it would not cost you a cent.

RateBullion/BullionSelect takes the hassle out of finding the right Bullion products for you - saving you time and money!!! That has a good ring to it. :D

Please tell me what you think stackers. Also would love to know what dealers think too, if you are lurking out there.

Pros/cons, road blocks any feedback would be good.

PS Do not steal my idea. :P

Cheers lunty
 
Success would be dependent upon how accurate/how often prices were updated. Would probably need dealers to submit daily % above / below spot prices, though the buyer would see only the prices.

The best ideas are often the simple ones.
 
This site would take a lot of work I think. Maybe a percentage rate set on spot might work with a live chart.
 
I actually thought of this a few months ago when I was living in Sydney as there's a good few dealers there and would spend an hour or two on the internets beforehand trying to figure out who was the best price.

Then came across this site http://bullionsupermarket.com/SILVER/Bar/prices.aspx?country=AU

Good potential but all the stuff they have is from eBay, not sure why there's no bullion dealers. Can't be too hard to assimilate even just the likes of Perth Mint and KJC's Live Price Sheets into one and to show the differences. If all delears submitted their prices, even for the most basic products, it could work. Small commission for each sale etc

Even if you were looking to buy a few thousand worth, could enter it for 'tender' so dealers can reply with their best offer for what you're looking for. I think this would help small time dealers who would be happy with the business that they may otherwise have missed out on
 
Thanks House and Paulo for your posts. I thought that there would be more interest and feedback about this. It has been on my mind all day and the more I think about it the more I really want to give it a go.

I really don't think its a money maker, more just a way to help poeple. I wonder how much I could have saved over the years and especially when I first started if there was a site like this.

BUYERS, I believe it would be a no brainer that stackers would use the site or would I be wrong thinking this? :(
DEALERS, If you are a good dealer and have good rates and prices this site would be a great way to get more taffic to your website or shop.

Tech side of the house, I have no idea if there is a program that would be able to pull all the info from bullion dealers sites and turn it into a user friendly comparison page.
Might be pricey to set up because I know very little about computer programs, however my girlfriend is remarkable with computers and knows how to build webpages(lucky for me) and thinks with more reseach and out side help, this could work.

I really think it would be great if you could type in, lets say 1 oz gold coin Perth Mint and bang, you have top 5 dealers with the best rates live and now you can be linked striaght to their website.

Please more thoughts and feedback..... :)

Cheers Lunty
 
One problem would be spot price differences - prices are dynamic, changing every few minutes - if you didn't hit every dealer website at exactly the same time, you wouldn't be comparing apples and apples.

Shipping is also a *major* difference - I can ship 500oz for $40, other dealers will charge $600.

Then there's insurance - some are included, others are mandatory x% charges added at checkout.

So many variables.
 
How about somewhere where dealers can have their own selling forums as well as links and ads for their physical storefront operations.

I reckon that might work. :)
 
goldpelican said:
One problem would be spot price differences - prices are dynamic, changing every few minutes - if you didn't hit every dealer website at exactly the same time, you wouldn't be comparing apples and apples.

Shipping is also a *major* difference - I can ship 500oz for $40, other dealers will charge $600.

Then there's insurance - some are included, others are mandatory x% charges added at checkout.

So many variables.
Click to expand...
I agree but i think the idea has some merit . A thought would maybe give price + spot at the time you acquired the info with the % over spot that would make it easier to track . .
Maybe just a % over spot at any given time might make it easier for a buyer to have a quick glance then say X has Y at Z% over spot . The simpler the better i think especially for people in the local area who want to pickup. But like you say the insurance & shipping puts a fly in the ointment if you had a drop down box of the shipping + insurance (if dealers would give you the info & notify you of any changes)under the dealers logo or name or the info provided on the same page it would be easy to compare
 
mickjohn said:
Isnt this the niche that spotmex was/is trying to fill?
Click to expand...
Yes, I have looked at spotmex and found it to be good to compare prices but would love to see more dealer on it. I see BB is on there. Why does this not get used more?

Lunty
 
I think there are a few vendors on there. Dont really use it myself. I prefer the direct approach with bullion dealers.

Niche items maybe, but numis are only entertaining for so long...
 
With regards to silver bullion, instead of looking for the cheapest priced bars on offer from dealers would it be better to to do group buys of large bars such as 1000oz or multiple of 15kg BHAS, melt them down into bars and all participating people split fabrication costs. So that we get them as close to cost price as possible?
Maybe the saving wouldnt be big enough though to go through such a process.
For example, GBA sell PAMP monster boxes for 1.24/oz above spot. How much would it cost to turn a 1000oz bar into 31x1kg bars? I wouldnt have a clue.
 
LovingtheSilver said:
With regards to silver bullion, instead of looking for the cheapest priced bars on offer from dealers would it be better to to do group buys of large bars such as 1000oz or multiple of 15kg BHAS, melt them down into bars and all participating people split fabrication costs. So that we get them as close to cost price as possible?
Maybe the saving wouldnt be big enough though to go through such a process.
For example, GBA sell PAMP monster boxes for 1.24/oz above spot. How much would it cost to turn a 1000oz bar into 31x1kg bars? I wouldnt have a clue.
Click to expand...


This sounds like the idea of us all buying a pub together so that we can all drink cheap beer :)
 
Lunty said:
mickjohn said:
Isnt this the niche that spotmex was/is trying to fill?
Click to expand...
Yes, I have looked at spotmex and found it to be good to compare prices but would love to see more dealer on it. I see BB is on there. Why does this not get used more?

Lunty
Click to expand...

Gold Stackers used to be on there - but honestly, we're not interested in online price wars - race to the bottom tactics serve no-one, so trying to be the cheapest by having a pool of dealers each undercutting by a quarter percent etc is ultimately a no-win game. One day a new entrant is going to come in, try to build market share by slashing margins, stuff up their hedging and go bust, leaving a bunch of customers in the lurch with paid orders and no product.

A platform like SPOTMEX only provides a platform to compete on price, and introduces new overheads (commission payable to the platform) that aren't required when selling direct, and there's only so far already thin margins can be squeezed before it either becomes unviable, or competitors get accused of price fixing because they're all selling at the same price and won't go any lower.

When margins on the bulk of gold sales are in the range from 1.5 to 2.5% over cost, it's an incredibly tight walk rope to walk as a dealer - a quarter percent drop in price represents a 10% to 16% drop in profit margins.
 
LovingtheSilver said:
With regards to silver bullion, instead of looking for the cheapest priced bars on offer from dealers would it be better to to do group buys of large bars such as 1000oz or multiple of 15kg BHAS, melt them down into bars and all participating people split fabrication costs. So that we get them as close to cost price as possible?
Maybe the saving wouldnt be big enough though to go through such a process.
For example, GBA sell PAMP monster boxes for 1.24/oz above spot. How much would it cost to turn a 1000oz bar into 31x1kg bars? I wouldnt have a clue.
Click to expand...

Edited to add quote:

It probably wouldnt cost that much to set up
ie Furnace, Crucibles, Moulds, Stamps etc
However the the minimal premium that would make it cost efficient probably wouldnt be worth the time/labour costs. Unless you have a love for it.

Quick and dirty break down (15kg is largest i could find online - premiums for 1000oz would obviously be less):
15kg BHAS (482.2 toz) = $ 15497 (KJC)
Poured into 15x 1kg
= minimum price (15497/15) = $1033
This figure doesnt take into account the cost of the setup, labour, sustainment and marketing (if required).

Current retail PM price for 1kg of internationally recognized brand of silver bullion: $1050.

Again, not sure what the premium is on 1000oz but even if you could get it at spot.
=$31000/brick
= 31.1kg
= $997/kg (not including other costs)
 
i like the idea of pooling our assets and creating a bullion backed currency as a trade medium.

.... anyone wanna be a banker :p
 
mickjohn said:
i like the idea of pooling our assets and creating a bullion backed currency as a trade medium.

.... anyone wanna be a banker :p
Click to expand...

+1 ...but isn't that what we're doing automatically by being stackers in the first place?
 
bordsilver said:
mickjohn said:
i like the idea of pooling our assets and creating a bullion backed currency as a trade medium.

.... anyone wanna be a banker :p
Click to expand...

+1 ...but isn't that what we're doing automatically by being stackers in the first place?
Click to expand...

I guess, but if we add a fiat currency to the mix, we can keep our bullion, get popular, become the world reserve currency, then we can move away from being backed from bullion and print more fiat.

Seems bulletproof?

Officeworks has a sale on printers too!

I feel as if i have derailed this thread. Back to topic. sorry Lunty!
 
@mickjohn
looking at the rough figures, the savings wouldn't be that much and people would most likely prefer to pay a little more to buy a recognized bar. Oh well, it was a good idea until it lasted :) And as GP mentioned above, having dealers list/advertise on the one web page would be a no-win situation if they always have to cut prices to out do each other. I think dealers already would be keeping an eye on competitors margins and adjusting to suit.

Regarding the website, there must be a program out there somewhere that automatically adjusts dealers price so that their listed products change on 'Lunty's' website. For example, I think BB prices change as spot does so that must have a program linked to do that, otherwise they would be sitting on front of computer forever changing prices.
 
Is this just a similar concept to say www.staticice.com.au? (except for PMs)

I'm guessing as goldpelican said though, the challenge is updating prices regularly and at the same time.
 
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