A few newbie questions - buying, market closed and protective capsules

M

Madhatter

New Member
Hey all, been lurking since about December, I don't really have anything to contribute as of yet but i enjoy reading the forums each day and watching the charts.

So I am really small time silver collector and up to now have stuck to sterling silver whilst I save up for my first roll on ten proper 999 fine bullion coins, I now have the money and with the recent drop in price its helped me get there a little sooner.

My first question is about the markets being closed for the weekend. If i order online now (if I can) will the price be set at Fridays close price or do I have to wait for the morning?.

And secondly i have decided to go for the Bison 1 ounce coins from the Canada wildlife set, does anyone know if these fit in the maple protective cases?.

Thanks for any help:)
 
Welcome. The Bison coins will fit the maple capsules. They are the same size.

Clicked "say thanks" instead of reply....fat thumb.
 
Great thank you RMP:) I thought at 45 pence per coin its well worth getting the capsules if they fit, otherwise was going to go for the maples but after some thought I think the Bison coins are for me right now. Whilst not as recognisable as the maple (I'm guessing) the premium the 2011 Timber wolf now commands intrigues me.
 
bloomst said:
Watchout for the milkspot mate...
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Ah yes I have heard about these being prone to this! Is this something that would happen strait from the mint? the coins are new, so I thought if i put them strait in protective plastic capsules they should be ok? Im guessing milkspots would destroy any added premium a coin may gain..Since they are only 60 pence more per ounce than the maples I thought they would be a good one to get.

Thanks for reminding me about this!.
 
Where are you buying from ?
If CoinInvestDirect, their prices are always accepted ordering online even if the market is closed.
If Atkinsons you will get a new price Monday morning regardless of what it shows on their website.
As for Bisons, I have been fortunate to have all spot free.
Milk spots and blemishes are caused by a process in the Mint and despite what some people say, they do not appear because they are not in tubes or capsules. You have 'em or you don't.
 
Thanks for explaining that to me Photonaware:) I will be ordering from Atkinsons so will have to wait till the morning.:(

Any rough ideas on how much milkspots can effect the value of a coin? out of ten coins could it just be one or two that have milkspots or is it more likely if one does the whole tube probably will? Sorry for all the questions its just I have saved for some time for these and i just want to arm myself with the facts before I buy, I could just get the maples if they are less prone to milkspots..Is it a rare thing?.
 
Madhatter said:
Thanks for explaining that to me Photonaware:) I will be ordering from Atkinsons so will have to wait till the morning.:(

Any rough ideas on how much milkspots can effect the value of a coin? out of ten coins could it just be one or two that have milkspots or is it more likely if one does the whole tube probably will? Sorry for all the questions its just I have saved for some time for these and i just want to arm myself with the facts before I buy, I could just get the maples if they are less prone to milkspots..Is it a rare thing?.
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These are bullion coins which means they are valued as one Toz of fine silver marked or unmarked.
With the Wildlife series they are bullion coins also but limited ( 1 million ) mintages and it is expected in time that they will appreciate faster than regular Maples.
Check out APMEX and compare all the prices of the six coins.
The Timber Wolf ( 1st in the series ) is difficult to get now and carries a nice premium
However, you would not get this premium on a badly spotted Wolf but you would still get a price perhaps a bit higher than a Maple.
Atkinsons are unlikely to inspect bullion coins so if a few have marks then that's unlucky.
A very badly marked coin might be exchanged though but the costs of shipping back and forth would not be worthwhile.

I would put the stats on milk spots on Wildlife coins more like 1% but in a tube of 25 if some have spots then there is a chance many will have spots as it does appear to be a batch process and if the Mint is producing spotted coins then quite a few will be spotted at that time on the run.

I have bought several tubes lately and NONE were spotted.

Bear in mind that with bullion coins from anywhere you may see scratches, pits and rubs so don't expect FDC condition.
I had serious quality issues with the new 2013 UK Britannia ( search on this forum for the thread ).
The Royal Mint is producing much better coins now but expect scratches and scuffs ( bullion issue not boxed and certified ) even today - that can be disappointing.
For perfection buy proofs but you will pay a hefty premium.

Australian Perth Mint coins are much better produced and handled and as they are packaged in capsules at the Mint they are possibly the best along with Chinese Pandas.
Any coin that is highly polished or mirror finish will show up defects and scratches very easily.

American Eagles and Mexican Libertads tend not to show up scratches etc because they are a duller finish.
Austrian Philharmonicas are extremely shiny and generally of a very high quality but as they have a smooth edge rather than a reeded edge I personally don't like them too much but for 'shiny' they take top place.
 
Madhatter said:
Thanks for explaining that to me Photonaware:) I will be ordering from Atkinsons so will have to wait till the morning.:(

Any rough ideas on how much milkspots can effect the value of a coin? out of ten coins could it just be one or two that have milkspots or is it more likely if one does the whole tube probably will? Sorry for all the questions its just I have saved for some time for these and i just want to arm myself with the facts before I buy, I could just get the maples if they are less prone to milkspots..Is it a rare thing?.
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I had to go thru a number of coins the other day to find one that I was selling and every coin from the RCM had milk spots. Maples, cougers and bison alike. I only have one or two of each but I will not be collecting anything else that the RCM produces as looking at the coins now there is certainly no primium to be had on them. The problem is you get them and think sweat no milk spots then a couple of months later the dreaded white marks appera.
I wonder why the RCM has not fixed this problem. Has anyone found spots on thier 1.5oz Polar Bears?
 
Thank you for the detailed and very helpful reply Photonaware. And for making me have more realistic expectations, i currently only have 1kg of 925 silver to my name so weight is what I am looking to build up more than anything, but I must admit I had a vision of the coins all looking like the pristine looking one pictured on the website! but at least no matter what my stack will have grown by nearly a third.

I will take my chances and go for 10 Bison's

I think the Philharmonicas look great, and I will be saving up for some, I'm aiming to get a roll of ten coins every couple of months. It may be silly but what somewhat put me off them was I couldn't see anywhere on the coin that says .999 and also the non English wording, What got me collecting silver was a feeling I may see a major economic collapse in my lifetime (im currently 29) And whilst any silver collectors,dealers would know exactly what they were general public may not (so may not be as useful in possible trade/barter)

I may just be crazy but that was my main concern with them as I'm looking real long term. But i do want to get at least 10 of all the main 1 ounce coins in time.

Thanks for the advice:)
 
I've also seen Grizzlies and Philharmonics develop milk spots over time. I was quite shocked to see the milk spots appear a month later on the same, once spotless, coins. But they don't bother me too much. It's well known, and I've come to accept it. The RCM really doesn't care about it so you take your chances. I don't agree with it, and feel the issue should be rectified, but really they are just bullion coins.
 
As a newbie stacker why opt for numis or semi numis and just stack bullion? playing with silver x the premium x futuristic value x etc increases chance of buying coins that wont be of great value than something you might have invested the time to research properly on.
 
xag said:
As a newbie stacker why opt for numis or semi numis and just stack bullion? playing with silver x the premium x futuristic value x etc increases chance of buying coins that wont be of great value than something you might have invested the time to research properly on.
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I wish i listen to this advice when i first starting.
 
xag said:
As a newbie stacker why opt for numis or semi numis and just stack bullion? playing with silver x the premium x futuristic value x etc increases chance of buying coins that wont be of great value than something you might have invested the time to research properly on.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying and agree, and in general I will certainly be going for price - weight ratio, But to have the bison's instead of the maples only cost me a extra 2.5% on the whole order to include postage and protective cases and I thought it was a fair gamble for the potential to get a better return on the coins when I sell or trade, in the future I may be able to swap these for extra weight, or a higher price so I can buy more bullion. It was a small gamble I am happy to take. Just ordered my first roll of ten bison's this morning:),

And also my Girlfriend likes the wildlife factor and so she chipped in for a coin:P

But I do understand what you are saying and will take the advice. Generally I will be going for the cheapest bullion I can get, that's what made me start of with 925 sterling silver as i could get it closer to spot price.

Edit* in an earlier reply I made to this thread I said this " But i do want to get at least 10 of all the main 1 ounce coins in time." I should have been a bit more specific here..I was looking at the Atkinsons silver coins page and when I said "main 1 ounce coins" i was thinking along the lines of the ones with the lowest premiums, maples,silver eagles, philharmonics and maybe britannia's ..For now at least I will be steering clear of the more expensive coins like Pandas,snakes ect. If i could buy one of each I might do but for now I will be saving for more rolls of ten at closest to spot price:).
 
Madhatter said:
xag said:
As a newbie stacker why opt for numis or semi numis and just stack bullion? playing with silver x the premium x futuristic value x etc increases chance of buying coins that wont be of great value than something you might have invested the time to research properly on.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying and agree, and in general I will certainly be going for price - weight ratio, But to have the bison's instead of the maples only cost me a extra 2.5% on the whole order to include postage and protective cases and I thought it was a fair gamble for the potential to get a better return on the coins when I sell or trade, in the future I may be able to swap these for extra weight, or a higher price so I can buy more bullion. It was a small gamble I am happy to take. Just ordered my first roll of ten bison's this morning:),

And also my Girlfriend likes the wildlife factor and so she chipped in for a coin:P

But I do understand what you are saying and will take the advice. Generally I will be going for the cheapest bullion I can get, that's what made me start of with 925 sterling silver as i could get it closer to spot price.
Click to expand...

Sounds Good to Me - Keep Stacking!
 
Not entirely sure why you refer to 10 coins as a "roll".
RCM coins can be supplied in polythene tubes with 25 coins inside.
Eagles and Phils are in poly tubes of 20
Libertads are inside a silver coloured inner toilet roll in 20's
Perth Mint are in capsules and you might find 20 Kooks for example shrink wrapped.
Pandas are also encapsulated and can be puchased in sheets.
Britannias are in snap plastic squares that are pretty flimsy at best.
I started placing bullion coins into capsules but they store much easier in the correct sized tubes.
Agree with your preference for Bisons over Maples.
Keep looking for special offers.
 
Good advice on not going the semi numismatic route. I listened to that advice in 2011 and bought maples instead of wolves. I could have sold the wolves 2 years later and bought twice as many maples. I regret it...in hindsight, but it's still good advice.
 
Photonaware said:
Not entirely sure why you refer to 10 coins as a "roll".
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I thought this would be how they probably come because for some coins on atkinsons it says 10+ where as others it does not (philharmonics) , but thanks sounds like it was a good idea I got the protective cases.

Another thing i have been wondering is why is there so much variation in prices from different dealers?

bullionbypost-price for maples

1+ 29.15 5.83 34.98
5+ 24.35 4.87 29.22
10+ 22.35 4.47 26.82
25+ 21.55 4.31 25.86
50+ 21.25 4.25 25.50
100+ 21.15 4.23 25.38
500+ 20.75 4.15 24.90
1000+ 20.65 4.13 24.78

Atkinsons

10+ 19.34 23.21
25+ 19.34 23.21
50+ 19.34 23.21
100+ 19.34 23.21
250+ 19.34 23.21
500+ 19.34 23.21
1000+ 19.34 23.21

So even buying 1000 coins from bullionbypost you STILL pay an extra 1.57 for each coin?? Im really glad Atkinsons prices are much more reasonable because i certainly would not be paying bullionbypost prices.:|
 
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