A basic overview of what happens to our taxes

There's only two ways that that can happen:

1. the government collapses, or
2. the government changes what taxes can be paid in

If we're looking at the probability of each event occuring, the first is unlikely, the second is nearly impossible.



And that's unlikely I'd say as well.

WOW !

mmm.....shiney! is the MASTER of EVERYTHING & is Blessing us with his ALL KNOWING wisdom.

mmm.....shiney! u must be the CEO/Owner of some Large Multi-National company or the President/Prime Minister of some country with ur Obvious Knowledge of F EVERYTHING !

:eek:

maybe it's time u Delete my account because of my obvious insufferable Idiocy compared to ur Brilliance o_O
 
mmm.....shiney! is the MASTER of EVERYTHING & is Blessing us with his ALL KNOWING wisdom.

I'd beg to differ:

"The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know". Albert Einstein

Fiat won't go to zero because it's a token of debt ie what we pay our taxes in. Unless the government/society collapse.
 
I read that a while ago, I think it was in a post by @pmbug and I had raised a couple of issues that I thought would need addressing or answering. I can't remember what they were. I was probably pissed at the time. :p

The big difference between Federal and State is that one level makes its own money and is therefore not revenue constrained while the other is a currency user and therefore revenue constrained. Florida taxes to raise revenue. So if it is intent on recognising gold and silver as "legal tender" then it would have to accept payment of State taxes and fees in precious metals which could be more complicated than the current system because it needs fiat not gold.

Any governmental entity choosing to accept or tender gold coin and silver coin may only do so electronically and, unless an exemption applies, must contract with a qualified public depository that can act as a custodian of such coin.

https://www.flsenate.gov/Committees/billsummaries/2025/html/3652

So if I'm reading it correctly, if a Floridian wants to pay State taxes, they're going to need to deposit the coins with a custodian (probably a bank) who will hold the coins and credit the State electronically ie digital fiat on a computer screen. So why not just sell your coins to pay your debt in the first place?

At the end of the day the move is more gimmicky than functional IMO as it would be with any commodity based currency.

Looks like they've got until Nov 1 to report back to the State Legislature.
 
I dont know how any sane person can comply with taxes (in the US at least).
How can anyone work so hard and have no problem handing so much to a government that hates them, lies, cheats and is nothing but corrupt.
All while they struggle to pay the bills and keep the kids fed.

Best thing ive ever done for myself is refuse to comply with that and my gold stack shows it.
What most people pay in Fed taxes i spend on metals and more.

I still always have the state of Colorado on my ass and I make them earn it by keeping them chasing me.
Unfortunately my current job pays too much to walk away from but thats a good thing.

It wouldnt be worth keeping this job if I had to donate 30% of my income and id quit and walk away before id ever pay that.

The Colorado state tax is only a few percent and not worth quitting over.

Bobbin and weavin!
 
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At the end of the day the move is more gimmicky than functional IMO as it would be with any commodity based currency.

Looks like they've got until Nov 1 to report back to the State Legislature.

Removing all state sales tax on gold and silver coins will encourage their use as a form of money, but I agree with you that the move is gimmicky. Still relevant nonetheless! ;)
 
I'd like to hear how people come to terms with giving so much to a group of traitors and criminals.
Those days of old would make me sick to my stomach and I always knew there was something shady going on.
It doesnt matter if they are donating it to transgender cleft lip nuns, I'd rather just keep it.
Ive been much better saving it for myself and my family and buying gold.
I'll never regret that choice.

I should start a YouTube channel telling everyone how easy it is and how you'll be so much richer and how stupid they all are for giving it away so easily haha.
I'd probably get shut down so fkn fast no joke
 
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As high as 45% - 50% here.
:(
TAX

Man thats insane to expect that from anyone.
That kind of money is worth fighting for and how does anyone ever agree to that.


If the US government would follow the Constitution I might agree to a small fraction of a percent but thats being generous. They can earn an income like everyone else has to.
 
As I understand it: and correct me if i am wrong, but im a system developer and ALL applications deal explicitly with numeric values and logic is bread and butter, but not finance:

In a double entry system. System begins without money and EVERYTHING is essencially zero sum...

> 0 = 1000 -1000
> account 1 Debit 1000
> account 2 Credit 1000

The legitimacy of this in essences is that once account 1 pays back DEBT, the Creditors (Negative values) associated variables are literally negated. (More effectively than positron-electron pairs, but lets leave that out because ENERGY exists in physics where it doesnt in logic. Footnote: energy... important.

Its just the same as a personal realtionship.
You start off on equal footing...
Someone... wont say who... attains a favor.
These favors are apparently standardised and represented by a value proposition (lets ignore moral propositions) between the parties by "agreed values" assuming theres agreement of the trade doesnt occur; and one part grants the time, energy, property bias (call it 3 "cars" for a "loaf of bread" bias, its the difference that facilitates the trade, not the total, that is recorded to the other...
This is Tracked... by the "literally recorded" value proposition system, employed to "Ideally" return the "agreed" and relative to other value propositions, bias, that burdened or otherwise cost or otherwise subtracted from the giver/creditors/now-hungry value and apparently equally advantaged, benefited or assisted the borrower/debtor/no-longer-starving partly...

So..

Why is their this "interest".
How is this non-zero apparently entity accounted for?

Its the third bookkeeper to exist...
The booky that actually gives the guarantee this eill all work out... and.. for-how-what hu?....
The reserve bank, lets cut to the chace.. these guys dont "create" anything.
They have books too...
They identify that governments exist to perform "value and moral proposition" - based, cost-benefit amalysis, and support the (whatever system, they dont care...) of government employed in said state..
Lets call it consitutitional morality, democratic leadership and and capitalist value propositions.. where it could be based on niche elite groups, biased favouritism and abhorently-unfair morality.
The REAL value of all this is: if someone can help someone, and the sum of that assistance once paid back, is in any way better than help not being provided, that is GOOD. It favours the participants. Whom the central tracking system facilitates by enabling the relative balamces to float between participants.

Why interest...
Because SOMEONE is legitimising a grand total DEBT leger, on behalf of the government.
Its saying that the govenment interest %etc.. is required to be repaid. Calculated as a valie that actually counts towards the total debt, that lends the "system" to otherwise have prodided a "Positive general account bias" within the community.
This incentivises people to hold and obtain the surplus, when healthy and able to identify trades that (ideally overall help) and grant them a positive bias.
This incentivises the taking of debt due to an inflationary environment (as the central banks overall negative balance sheet is assessed for its numeric size, and it gives the money to governments to spend based on approved budgets and in so doing hols itself a negative number.. the interest.. is a measure of the relative economic value of the numbers and serves to adjust the bias betseen the debtors and creditors balance sheets, where.. they exist in the system AS a creditor... as interest is paid the double entry system eliminates tge interest also. This interest is like saying..

Ill lend you a sandwitch, but i want 2 in return...
At which point... 1 sandwitch is manifest from nowhere and given to you...
You survive to be able to grow and provide a day for us tk sit and have lunch and someone comes with 2 coffees and were all just doing great..
Debt eliminated.
That second sandwitch tho...
Its on the first persons books.
The double entry accounts for the interest as its an expansion value on both sides as time passes.

0 =1050 -1050 after 1year month at 5%..
It should match inflation of circulating money.
Somewhere behind this curtain i sence theres a Benefit of governments having capacity to spend the newly created money first... BUT.
This is negated by budget details sharing and disclosure, as ANTICIPATED future monetary pklicy and the systems parameters are know to the population before the money is spent...
So the insider knowlege is actually where the bias is.. and THAT.. is where the corruption is morr likely to lay.

Where is the interest supposed to come from tho.. look around. If you have debt.. then someone has the credit.. And if you have the credit, someone has the debt...
If the value of your debt goes up because of interest.. so the the same relative societial actions required to pay it back... (inflationary >interest rate balance should do this in functioning economy)

If I lend you a tree that bears 1 apple per day for the cost of... 2 apples per day...

Then you had bettwe be making 1 apple pie you can see for 2 apples at least.. to pay me back.
Otherwise... why borrow the tree...

If it withers and dies.. you have made a poor choise.

Inflation.. should eat that up slightly if the tree was expensive and the interest was low...

If interest is high.. dont take risks... identify those that can do good things with hat you can give and ffs.. charge equivelant interest yourself....

IMO.... All potentially a delusion of one stacker pirate... all fictional characters not mentioned are strictly virtual, no sandwitches were harmed in the making of this stab in the dark. Its just how i see it.
 
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I'm going to try and answer your question in 3 parts. Remembering that this thread is related to how a national government finances its spending. And that's critical to understand.

So firstly the basic premise is that a government does not tax in order to raise revenue. Secondly the function of interest and then finally attempting to draw together the two concepts in order to show the distinction between how public and private money relate in a modern currency system. And it's no coincidence that Professor Steven keen says if you want to understand how modern currencies work, then go out and study engineering or system dynamics eg Lyn Alden for example is an engineer by trade and has incredible insight into the financial system. I'm going to try and keep it brief otherwise my brain will hurt.
 
System begins without money and EVERYTHING is essencially zero sum...

Yes. In order to pay our taxes the government must firstly spend. Otherwise where does the money come from for us to pay our tax?

The legitimacy of this in essences is that once account 1 pays back DEBT, the Creditors (Negative values) associated variables are literally negated.

Governments spend and then create a debt liability by way of the tax system. The spreadsheet shows a credit on the government's books and a complementary liability on our books. Once we pay off our obligation those credits and liabilities are negated. In essence the money is destroyed.
 
Next, there's interest rates.

So if the government doesn't fund it's spending through taxation because it must spend first before it can tax, the same applies to interest. It can't charge interest until it spends the money, therefore any interest it charges doesn't function as a revenue raising strategy. The cash rate for example is used to control the yield on bonds which are just instruments used to enhance financial stability. Treasury securities don't function to raise revenue for the government because the money used to buy bonds has already been issued by the government in the first place. Likewise interest charged on outstanding tax obligations is not a revenue raising exercise, it's a compliance enforcing strategy.
 
And finally, interest functions differently in the real economy because businesses and individuals aren't creators of currency, we're end users. We can't print money so we have to labour for it or charge others who wish to use our accumulated funds. So in the real economy someone's debt is another's source of income and the person in debt must produce something of value so that when he pays that debt back he still has his profit which he can use to meet his needs and desires.

I know I haven't touched on the inflation/interest rate thing you mentioned.
 
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