5 myths about silver

[malachii]

my strength is picking up on bullshit - which is why i often feel the need to retort to your posts

My humblest of apologies. Would it be possible for you too point out which of my posts are bullshit and explain why (preferably in a simple language that I can understand).

malachii

 

[hennypenny]

Surely the only myth is that Captain Clueless will make his fortune by buying silver at any time at any price?

Oh sorry, I guess that's not a myth - only one person believes it.

 

[Jislizard]

my strength is picking up on bullshit - which is why i often feel the need to retort to your posts

My humblest of apologies. Would it be possible for you too point out which of my posts are bullshit and explain why (preferably in a simple language that I can understand).

malachii

Please don't encourage him.

As to the idea of a coin's face value becoming lower than its melt value, that is only a problem if you are going to try and stick to the old way which just failed.

If you denominate your coin in some made up system like dollar, pound or euro then this will be a problem but if you just have 10g stamped on a 10g blob of silver then it will only ever be worth 10g of silver.

Coins will all look better when they no longer have heads on them anyway.

 

[Butch]

Dude, you're a tool. You realize that you don't have to reply to every single post right?

A bit off topic but is a tool the same as a nob???????

 

[Ernster]

Dude, you're a tool. You realize that you don't have to reply to every single post right?

A bit off topic but is a tool the same as a nob???????

You West Aussies really are an isolated bunch arent ya

 

[Pirocco]

my strength is picking up on bullshit - which is why i often feel the need to retort to your posts

My humblest of apologies. Would it be possible for you too point out which of my posts are bullshit and explain why (preferably in a simple language that I can understand).

malachii

It's not that hard to see why he named your arguments bullshit, for example, the price is indeed stable, I bought 4 times silver this year, all at $32-33. To me, that appears stable. How does it appear to you?
Another example is your statement that a dealer sells more ounces silver than gold. Of course, the price of a silver ounce is lower. Does this increase the available silver? No. I wondered how you saw any argument related to amount silver coins/bullion in that.
Yet another example is your statement that industrial use will drop when silver becomes more expensive. That is true, but tell me, a cell phone holds 0.25 g silver and 0.024 g gold. That's at current spot 0.27 dollar silver per gsm If the spot price doubled (yea, doubling is ALOT) then it would be 0.54. The hardware cost alone of a CDMA iPhone 4 is $171.35 and the real price (labor/shipping/advertising/software/patent licensing/etc) is much higher. So, your argument is bullshit, not in terms of price direction but in terms of scale. It's like emptying a bucket water over someone and you claim that he's not wet because one drop missed him.
The same scale error applies to your statement about recycling. You say he shoots himself in the foot but while saying that you do it yourself. The 'right' price is way higher than todays and inflation can only make that even more, since the mining & refining & shaping & recycling, the cost to add it to the for-sale supply, is closely dependent to other prices, whereas the one of gold is less, simply due to its large stocks. The 1980's Hunt brothers story and the resulting price was due to cornering its market, and it happened so quick and passed so fast that there was no way that recycling could reflect this peaking price trend, let alone for silver alone. You don't plan and build and produce in the couple months the price goes from $11 to $50 like it did in 1980.
And your last statement, that fiatcurrencies will always have a place, the fiat problem just became the world problem. In past situations money could be moved to foreign banks, foreign currencies could be used, and in need people could flee to another country. What will they do when the problem became the world? Bow head and accept the fiat? No, it will be conflict. Between people that produce and people that produce nothing. Black markets will rise, and fiatcurrencies will be plain refused no matter legal tender laws and other fascist crap.

So my humblest of apologies too, but one can only agree with the topic starter.
Ofcourse some don't like competition for their cheapskate-production fiatcurrency because they produce nothing and thus have nothing except that to trade.

 

[Nugget]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvufFwdqMzg[/youtube]

 

[malachii]

It's not that hard to see why he named your arguments bullshit, for example, the price is indeed stable, I bought 4 times silver this year, all at $32-33. To me, that appears stable. How does it appear to you?

I'm sorry - but I stated (as did the original post) that we were talking about 2008-2009 not this year. Please read the quote before you engage abuse. Also not sure if someone who bought in April/May this year at $45+ oz would agree that the price has been stable.

Another example is your statement that a dealer sells more ounces silver than gold. Of course, the price of a silver ounce is lower. Does this increase the available silver? No. I wondered how you saw any argument related to amount silver coins/bullion in that.

The original quote was that "silver coins and bullion are less plentiful than gold". I made no judgement on the amount of available silver - in fact I stated the number of coins and bullion available was different to the availability of a commodity. Price also has nothing to do with number sold - copper coins are far cheaper than silver and I'll lay money on the fact that more silver coins/bullion is sold in pretty much all numismatic/bullion shops than copper ones.

Yet another example is your statement that industrial use will drop when silver becomes more expensive. That is true,

So if you're agreeing with me - how is this bullshit???

but tell me, a cell phone holds 0.25 g silver and 0.024 g gold. That's at current spot 0.27 dollar silver per gsm If the spot price doubled (yea, doubling is ALOT) then it would be 0.54. The hardware cost alone of a CDMA iPhone 4 is $171.35 and the real price (labor/shipping/advertising/software/patent licensing/etc) is much higher. So, your argument is bullshit, not in terms of price direction but in terms of scale. It's like emptying a bucket water over someone and you claim that he's not wet because one drop missed him.

Actually - while not agreeing with your water example - this is pretty much what I am saying. As things (in this case silver) become more expensive then humans find more efficient ways to use the product (in this case silver) so the price increase has less effect (far less silver used in cell phones now than when the first started using silver in them). In some cases eventually humans find ways to do without the product almost entirely (eg photography).

The same scale error applies to your statement about recycling. You say he shoots himself in the foot but while saying that you do it yourself. The 'right' price is way higher than todays and inflation can only make that even more, since the mining & refining & shaping & recycling, the cost to add it to the for-sale supply, is closely dependent to other prices, whereas the one of gold is less, simply due to its large stocks. The 1980's Hunt brothers story and the resulting price was due to cornering its market, and it happened so quick and passed so fast that there was no way that recycling could reflect this peaking price trend, let alone for silver alone. You don't plan and build and produce in the couple months the price goes from $11 to $50 like it did in 1980.

This is taken from the Silver Institute website - a website of the worldwide association of silver miners, refiners, fabricators and manufacturers.

"These high silver prices meanwhile were having a dramatic effect on the physical silver market conditions. Total supply rose form 434.8 million ounces in 1978 to 505.0 million ounces in 1979, and then to 584.6 million ounces in 1980. The bulk of this increase occurred in secondary recovery. Total secondary recycling of silver doubled, from 152.0 million ounces in 1978 to 302.0 million ounces in 1980. The recovery of silver from old coins, those holdings taken in by investors during the 1960s, increased from 21 million ounces in 1978 to 45 million ounces the next year, and then to 94 million ounces in 1980. Refiners faced substantial backlogs, sometimes of 6-12 months in processing these materials.

Mine production remained almost unchanged during this time, and actually was lower in 1980, at 264.6 million ounces, than it had been in 1978. "

http://www.silverinstitute.org/19791980.php

A good article that highlights some scarey similarities between the run up in 1979-1980 and now. Also gives some more details on how replacement products for silver were being used by industry once silver got above $15 oz.

And your last statement, that fiatcurrencies will always have a place, the fiat problem just became the world problem. In past situations money could be moved to foreign banks, foreign currencies could be used, and in need people could flee to another country. What will they do when the problem became the world? Bow head and accept the fiat? No, it will be conflict. Between people that produce and people that produce nothing. Black markets will rise, and fiatcurrencies will be plain refused no matter legal tender laws and other fascist crap.

This one has been done to death and can't be proven either way - I'm happy to say that you may be right or not.

So my humblest of apologies too, but one can only agree with the topic starter.

I don't agree for the above reasons and those given earlier - each to their own.

Ofcourse some don't like competition for their cheapskate-production fiatcurrency because they produce nothing and thus have nothing except that to trade.

Not sure what you mean by this?

malachii

 

[ReturnToZero]

http://www.munknee.com/2011/10/dont-be-misled-here-are-five-common-myths-about-silver/


1. Silver is an "economically sensitive" metal

During the recession of 2008-2009, the CPM Group estimated that silver demand from photography, jewelry, and industry dropped by roughly 80 million ounces (CPM Silver Yearbook, p.69). Mine supply also increased by about 30 million ounces, along with a 15 million or so increase in recycling. Therefore, in order for the price of silver to remain stable (theoretically), you would need investors to make up this roughly 100 million ounce difference, which is exactly what they did. Given the fact that people understood the need to buy precious metals during a banking crisis, investment demand for silver increased by nearly 100 million ounces at the same time as demand fell and other sources of silver also increased. (p.11)

Apart from the stuff malachi mentioned, which poked holes everywhere, which YKY "shot down" without any sort of useful debate, except a childish remark, number 1 is contradictory.

The fact that demand dropped by 80 million ounces during the 2008-2009 crisis, means it IS economically sensitive. That is the definition of economically sensitive - it's sensitive to the economy. Investors buying 100 million to offset it doesn't change this fact.

 

[ReturnToZero]

lol - thanks for that :lol:

I just love the mirth you bring.

Tip: Stick to RE ... that is clearly where your knowledge lies

Yipee - it's high quality posts like this that highlight your obvious superior intellect and ability to put forward your arguements in a clear, concise way. Keep up the good work guiding us to the new world.

malachii

my strength is picking up on bullshit - which is why i often feel the need to retort to your posts

Your strength is believing in anything that comes out that says silver is awesome. That is all - you are actually really bad at picking up on the bullshit since you believe everything.

 

[940palmtx]

Y'all should save the vitriol for General Discussion Topics like
Did America cause the Tsunami in Japan with their wanton capitalism? or
Was the Dust Bowl really created by the American Govt to place blame on the wind? or
America never won a war, it was really Canadians dressed in US uniforms

Ya know, important factual stuff like that...LMMFAO

 

[Dwayne]

J

Dude, you're a tool. You realize that you don't have to reply to every single post right?

A bit off topic but is a tool the same as a nob???????

Not necessarily -though I guess they can be related concepts

 

[fishball]

Your strength is believing in anything that comes out that says silver is awesome. That is all - you are actually really bad at picking up on the bullshit since you believe everything.

:lol:

 

[Yippe-Ki-Ya]

I can't see silver or gold at any alloy concentration being used as common coinage again - You can't mint coins that may at some time in the not too distant future have a higher melt value that their face value.

Wow - didn't know you were that young...

the current generation Y is the only generation to have lived in a fiat only currency system, but any other generation would have had experience of real money.
I suppose if the inbreds who are behind the 20th century scam that is the fiat currency system survive the next big war with its resulting recriminations then i guess mankind will remain slaves to bankers via their fiat system.

Personally i am quite hopeful that the inbreds will not last this century out...

I can't see silver or gold at any alloy concentration being used as common coinage again - You can't mint coins that may at some time in the not too distant future have a higher melt value that their face value.

I think we had our pens (or swords) crossed there.
I'm talking about a money system where there are
1. gold or silver coins - and the "face value" is simply the weight, the purity, and who minted the coin.
2. paper receipts issued by a bank for gold/silver held in deposit - thus in effect a 'bank note' fully backed by gold or silver.

 

[Yippe-Ki-Ya]

J

Dude, you're a tool. You realize that you don't have to reply to every single post right?

A bit off topic but is a tool the same as a nob???????

Not necessarily -though I guess they can be related concepts

At least a tool is still useful ... and still on the bright side - at least i dont cheer the carbon tax like some pseudo intellectual turds around here :lol:

 

[euphoria]

Wow - didn't know you were that young...

the current generation Y is the only generation to have lived in a fiat only currency system, but any other generation would have had experience of real money.
I suppose if the inbreds who are behind the 20th century scam that is the fiat currency system survive the next big war with its resulting recriminations then i guess mankind will remain slaves to bankers via their fiat system.

Personally i am quite hopeful that the inbreds will not last this century out...

I can't see silver or gold at any alloy concentration being used as common coinage again - You can't mint coins that may at some time in the not too distant future have a higher melt value that their face value.

I think we had our pens (or swords) crossed there.
I'm talking about a money system where there are
1. gold or silver coins - and the "face value" is simply the weight, the purity, and who minted the coin.
2. paper receipts issued by a bank for gold/silver held in deposit - thus in effect a 'bank note' fully backed by gold or silver.

The key to a true gold standard is not 'backing'. It is 'redeemable'.

 

[pmstacker]

Yipee - it's high quality posts like this that highlight your obvious superior intellect and ability to put forward your arguements in a clear, concise way. Keep up the good work guiding us to the new world.

malachii

my strength is picking up on bullshit - which is why i often feel the need to retort to your posts

Your strength is believing in anything that comes out that says silver is awesome. That is all - you are actually really bad at picking up on the bullshit since you believe everything.

ummm :lol: .. it could be ALLL true, you never know :lol: </end sarcasm tone>

At the end of the day who cares ... they may or may not run the world, lets say they do, you just gotta create your oasis using skills you pick up , THE ONLY way you loose to those guys (if they even exist) is that they take the clothes of your back and throw you in jail for no reason.

As long as I can still trade, can still work and make a decent living, eventually trade paper assets gained by working, business and stock trading for *real* assets such as gold silver, pork bellies ... whatever ... knowing the Rothchilds exist and caring they exist is irrelevant.

I guess it does feel good and is easier to blame the/your misery on an all encompassing worldly evil (like the Rothschild), but if they do exist there is j*ck you can do about it, might as well deal with it. If JPM push and surpress silver down take advantage of the situation, if they no longer can do it and the price is heading to the moon, take advantage, its as simple as that.

For the record I hate banks too, mainly because of how they make sh*t smell like roses and sell it to people without telling them the complete in's and outs. Like saying toffee apples are good for you cause the apple is healthy and wholesome without telling you about the bad effects of sugar within the toffee LOL ..

Whether rothschild exist ... completly irrelevant. Now if they were to come to my house and literally strip the money from my bank, strip the clothes on my back and make my join a diamond mine, then id care, fight back like the 6 billion other people on the planet

We got our freedom ... doing better then most people in the past, hell better then most people on the planet today ... be happy and make some FREAKING Money :lol: Forget the Freaking Rothchilds ...

 

[Yippe-Ki-Ya]

I can't see silver or gold at any alloy concentration being used as common coinage again - You can't mint coins that may at some time in the not too distant future have a higher melt value that their face value.

I think we had our pens (or swords) crossed there.
I'm talking about a money system where there are
1. gold or silver coins - and the "face value" is simply the weight, the purity, and who minted the coin.
2. paper receipts issued by a bank for gold/silver held in deposit - thus in effect a 'bank note' fully backed by gold or silver.

The key to a true gold standard is not 'backing'. It is 'redeemable'.

I believe we are in total agreement here Jonesy - it's simply terminology which is confusing.

By "fully backed" I am in fact implying that the notes are 'fully redeemable' in gold/silver.
Any bank note which is not redeemable in gold/silver is by definition not fully backed by gold/silver...

 

[malachii]

my strength is picking up on bullshit - which is why i often feel the need to retort to your posts

My humblest of apologies. Would it be possible for you too point out which of my posts are bullshit and explain why (preferably in a simple language that I can understand).

malachii

Still waiting YKY - please don't make me wait much longer for your guidance - I can't handle the suspense.

malachii

 

[ReturnToZero]

my strength is picking up on bullshit - which is why i often feel the need to retort to your posts

Your strength is believing in anything that comes out that says silver is awesome. That is all - you are actually really bad at picking up on the bullshit since you believe everything.

ummm :lol: .. it could be ALLL true, you never know :lol: </end sarcasm tone>

At the end of the day who cares ... they may or may not run the world, lets say they do, you just gotta create your oasis using skills you pick up , THE ONLY way you loose to those guys (if they even exist) is that they take the clothes of your back and throw you in jail for no reason.

As long as I can still trade, can still work and make a decent living, eventually trade paper assets gained by working, business and stock trading for *real* assets such as gold silver, pork bellies ... whatever ... knowing the Rothchilds exist and caring they exist is irrelevant.

I guess it does feel good and is easier to blame the/your misery on an all encompassing worldly evil (like the Rothschild), but if they do exist there is j*ck you can do about it, might as well deal with it. If JPM push and surpress silver down take advantage of the situation, if they no longer can do it and the price is heading to the moon, take advantage, its as simple as that.

For the record I hate banks too, mainly because of how they make sh*t smell like roses and sell it to people without telling them the complete in's and outs. Like saying toffee apples are good for you cause the apple is healthy and wholesome without telling you about the bad effects of sugar within the toffee LOL ..

Whether rothschild exist ... completly irrelevant. Now if they were to come to my house and literally strip the money from my bank, strip the clothes on my back and make my join a diamond mine, then id care, fight back like the 6 billion other people on the planet

We got our freedom ... doing better then most people in the past, hell better then most people on the planet today ... be happy and make some FREAKING Money :lol: Forget the Freaking Rothchilds ...

Good stuff buddy