5 cents - seems like a waste of time and money
- Thread starter kevalie
- Start date
kramer said:
Your correct because they were intruduced to fool us into accecpting the theif of the Silver content from the six-pence, shilling and florin hense same colour, dimensions and weights. Since the Silver standard was a standard of weights and measures 2x six-pence = 1x shilling in weight of silver as did 2x shillings = 1x florin in weight of silver.
The article is a bit miss-leading, say a 5 cent piece has 2.8 cents worth of metal in it but a 5c, 10c and 20c all cost 4.2 cents each to produce, this means;
5c = 2.8c + 4.2c = 7c
10c = 5.6c + 4.2c = 9.8c
20c = 11.2c + 4.2c = 11.2c
Nabullion Dynamite
Active Member
I've been saving U.S nickels for awhile now. They are already looking ways to bring down the cost of the nickel so sometime in the future they will either change the composition or remove the nickel from circulation. Only coin right now besides copper pennys whos face value is still represented by the metal content. If they pull them they may get a very small collector premium, if the metal goes up you may beable to sell them for a small premium like copper pennies on Ebay, if nothing happens then you can turn them into the bank. Only chance of loss is if nothing happens inflation will eat away at them a bit since they are not doing any work for you. Its also harder for me to buy with nickels so it helps me save!
tozak said:Also did I meantion I stack 5c, 10c and 20c pieces for exactly this reason. It's like the $10 Sterling Silver coins, you can't loose, you have face value and a metal content approaching the face value. Safest investment to be in atm.
i have been seriously considering stacking the $10 state series coins but have kept to round 50's this far. the $10 hard price floor is very appealing and makes good sense with the silver value being around $12.50ish (last i looked)
can you please explain how you stack 5c, 10c and 20c coins practically? i go through kg's and i mean KG's of these every week with through work. seems i should have paid you in 10c pieces when we traded F2f hahaha
errol43 said:^^^^It is good to see that stackers are finally seeing the logic in stacking $10 state coins..
If silver ever drops to $5oz, you can make a killing, by going to the bank, getting $10 for .6oz silver then buying 2 oz silver for $10,
Regards Errol 43
Would a normal bank branch accept them at face value?
Or would you have to send them off to RBA?
Boyscout said:errol43 said:^^^^It is good to see that stackers are finally seeing the logic in stacking $10 state coins..
If silver ever drops to $5oz, you can make a killing, by going to the bank, getting $10 for .6oz silver then buying 2 oz silver for $10,
Regards Errol 43
Would a normal bank branch accept them at face value?
Or would you have to send them off to RBA?
Yes they would.
Regards Errol 43
Would a normal bank branch accept them at face value?
Or would you have to send them off to RBA?[/quote]
It was no problem in the past to deposit them into your account, here is a receipt for some $200 gold coins deposited into my account:
http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/26_200.jpg[/quote]
priceless not value-less
Or would you have to send them off to RBA?[/quote]
It was no problem in the past to deposit them into your account, here is a receipt for some $200 gold coins deposited into my account:
http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/26_200.jpg[/quote]
priceless not value-less
kramer said:tozak said:Also did I meantion I stack 5c, 10c and 20c pieces for exactly this reason. It's like the $10 Sterling Silver coins, you can't loose, you have face value and a metal content approaching the face value. Safest investment to be in atm.
i have been seriously considering stacking the $10 state series coins but have kept to round 50's this far. the $10 hard price floor is very appealing and makes good sense with the silver value being around $12.50ish (last i looked)
can you please explain how you stack 5c, 10c and 20c coins practically? i go through kg's and i mean KG's of these every week with through work. seems i should have paid you in 10c pieces when we traded F2f hahaha
Same way a Bank stacks them, I split them up into 5c, 10c, 20c and fill up the bank bags $10 per bag (cheap way to do it as well banks will give you the bags for nothing). It also means they are fast to trade with or Bank if needed. I remember a few years back I was running really short one week and didn't know what to do, I didn't really have the time to arrange to sell some silver and was tapped out. Then I remembered my milk crate full of the change already in the $10 bags, I just grabbed 20 bags and ran them down to the bank and was straight in my account, it saved the day.
tozak said:Also did I mention I stack 5c, 10c and 20c pieces for exactly this reason. It's like the $10 Sterling Silver coins, you can't loose, you have face value and a metal content approaching the face value. Safest investment to be in atm.
The few problems I have with this stacking strategy...
1. There is currently a non-industry market for silver, so anything with silver in it you can sell to the public as well as industry. Does the same market exist for Cupronickel? There are many alloys of CuNi, is this particular alloy used for anything other than coins? I know there are some marine applications for CuNi but is it the same alloy? If the only people who want this alloy are the coin makers, and they decide to make the coins out of a cheaper metal, then who are you going to sell to?
2. You can't separate the metals out at home. If you are super keen you can refine silver coins at home, along with other scrap silver. You can probably melt old coins into a bar but then what? The USA has laws to prevent you from melting the coins down and selling them for scrap. Silver coins you could hide in other silver scrap, but the coin alloy... harder to get away with.
3. You may end up with significant issues getting rid of the coins. Shops are only obliged to accept up to a certain amount in coins, and it isn't very high. Over in the USA, you get charged for depositing coins, or you have to roll them yourself for deposit.
4. The reason the metal content is approaching the face value is that the face value is pretty much worthless. If inflation continues then your face value stop loss is no longer significant.
5. You have money that is losing value due to inflation (Face Value), and gaining value due to inflation (metal content); looks to be a return-neutral investment. At the moment if you can buy 6 cents worth of metal for 5 cents then it looks like you are winning, but only if you can find someone to pay 6 cents for a 5 cent coin. Until you can sell it you are just losing money.
6. The space it takes up. I know this is used as a reason not to stack copper, and when the price of copper skyrockets then you will be rich. But stacking CuNi makes less sense than stacking Copper to me.
7. Relatively little numismatic upside to collecting these coins. The fact that I can remember to look out for the 1972 5 cents probably means that there isn't too much to remember in these series. I have set aside plenty of the 20 cent commemoratives though, these are probably the only ones I would stack and even I am getting a bit bored with 'Don Bradman', I haven't seen a 'United Nations' for many years but I always enjoy adding the Centenary of Federation coins to the stack. However I just saw four rolls of Centenary of Federation 20 cent coins go for $20 a roll (Catalogue value of $60). So I am in no doubt as to the true value of my circulated versions.
8. Production cost does not necessarily equal the value of the metals. You still have to pay for the refining, planchet manufacture, dies, minting, collection, storage and distribution. These would probably be about the same for any denomination and probably fairly fixed, so for the smaller coins, more of the cost would be in the manufacturing process than the metals. Probably means the higher denominations are not double the value of the smaller ones.
Having said all that, there are positives to stacking it.
1. The premiums are low, you can buy them at face value, there is no dealer mark-up.
2. Easy to get hold of, no need to travel or use the postal service so there are no handling costs.
3. Not much required in the way of security, no insurance premiums or safes required.
4. It is 'off the books' and easier to dispose of in unaccounted transactions. No requirement to show proof of purchase.
5. Not likely to be faked, unlike higher denominations.
I have got quite a few of the commemorative and low mintage 50 cents and I always put aside the commemorative 20 cents when I get them but it is getting to the stage when the cost of real estate to keep them would be better off used for storing books or clothes.
SmartyFarty
Member
You cannot buy much with 5 cents these days.
I am not sure if they sell lollies for 5 cents like they use to when I was a kid.
I say scrap it.
It is pretty funny that the US still have the 1 cent penny. Now that is worthless (the face value, not the metal value).
I am not sure if they sell lollies for 5 cents like they use to when I was a kid.
I say scrap it.
It is pretty funny that the US still have the 1 cent penny. Now that is worthless (the face value, not the metal value).
1for1
Well-Known Member
Jislizard said:tozak said:Also did I mention I stack 5c, 10c and 20c pieces for exactly this reason. It's like the $10 Sterling Silver coins, you can't loose, you have face value and a metal content approaching the face value. Safest investment to be in atm.
The few problems I have with this stacking strategy...
1. There is currently a non-industry market for silver, so anything with silver in it you can sell to the public as well as industry. Does the same market exist for Cupronickel? There are many alloys of CuNi, is this particular alloy used for anything other than coins? I know there are some marine applications for CuNi but is it the same alloy? If the only people who want this alloy are the coin makers, and they decide to make the coins out of a cheaper metal, then who are you going to sell to?
2. You can't separate the metals out at home. If you are super keen you can refine silver coins at home, along with other scrap silver. You can probably melt old coins into a bar but then what? The USA has laws to prevent you from melting the coins down and selling them for scrap. Silver coins you could hide in other silver scrap, but the coin alloy... harder to get away with.
3. You may end up with significant issues getting rid of the coins. Shops are only obliged to accept up to a certain amount in coins, and it isn't very high. Over in the USA, you get charged for depositing coins, or you have to roll them yourself for deposit.
4. The reason the metal content is approaching the face value is that the face value is pretty much worthless. If inflation continues then your face value stop loss is no longer significant.
5. You have money that is losing value due to inflation (Face Value), and gaining value due to inflation (metal content); looks to be a return-neutral investment. At the moment if you can buy 6 cents worth of metal for 5 cents then it looks like you are winning, but only if you can find someone to pay 6 cents for a 5 cent coin. Until you can sell it you are just losing money.
6. The space it takes up. I know this is used as a reason not to stack copper, and when the price of copper skyrockets then you will be rich. But stacking CuNi makes less sense than stacking Copper to me.
7. Relatively little numismatic upside to collecting these coins. The fact that I can remember to look out for the 1972 5 cents probably means that there isn't too much to remember in these series. I have set aside plenty of the 20 cent commemoratives though, these are probably the only ones I would stack and even I am getting a bit bored with 'Don Bradman', I haven't seen a 'United Nations' for many years but I always enjoy adding the Centenary of Federation coins to the stack. However I just saw four rolls of Centenary of Federation 20 cent coins go for $20 a roll (Catalogue value of $60). So I am in no doubt as to the true value of my circulated versions.
8. Production cost does not necessarily equal the value of the metals. You still have to pay for the refining, planchet manufacture, dies, minting, collection, storage and distribution. These would probably be about the same for any denomination and probably fairly fixed, so for the smaller coins, more of the cost would be in the manufacturing process than the metals. Probably means the higher denominations are not double the value of the smaller ones.
Having said all that, there are positives to stacking it.
1. The premiums are low, you can buy them at face value, there is no dealer mark-up.
2. Easy to get hold of, no need to travel or use the postal service so there are no handling costs.
3. Not much required in the way of security, no insurance premiums or safes required.
4. It is 'off the books' and easier to dispose of in unaccounted transactions. No requirement to show proof of purchase.
5. Not likely to be faked, unlike higher denominations.
I have got quite a few of the commemorative and low mintage 50 cents and I always put aside the commemorative 20 cents when I get them but it is getting to the stage when the cost of real estate to keep them would be better off used for storing books or clothes.
Excellent post and points..
I was stacking these also like topaz but the combined cheap silver and sheer bulk and space they waste prompted me to cash except for my young head 5c and high grade specimens .. Even UNC Bags are we gone.. Feels good too .. Too many metals sitting at home will weigh you down.. I'm quality over quantity now so base metals are out dewspiote them being a great deal. For newbie stackers before your investment spend gets into thousands
SilverDJ
Well-Known Member
Do people actually buy these rolls of $2 coins?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2013-2-P...ON-SECURITY-ROLL-ONLY-2-MILLION-/331544251638
1100% return in 2 years??
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2013-2-P...ON-SECURITY-ROLL-ONLY-2-MILLION-/331544251638
1100% return in 2 years??
On a side note the removal of the 5 cent pieces would mean I would double my savings on all my bills due to rounding
Instead of putting $30.02 worth of fuel in the car and paying $30 cash I could put $30.04 worth of fuel in the car and pay $30 cash
Same paying bills at the post office, I could pay an extra 4 cents off every bill just in roundings
Probably save me an extra $2.00 a year if we got rid of the 5 cent pieces, so in twelve years I could have an extra ounce of Silver
Instead of putting $30.02 worth of fuel in the car and paying $30 cash I could put $30.04 worth of fuel in the car and pay $30 cash
Same paying bills at the post office, I could pay an extra 4 cents off every bill just in roundings
Probably save me an extra $2.00 a year if we got rid of the 5 cent pieces, so in twelve years I could have an extra ounce of Silver