2009 Silver Panda?

I

intelligencer

Active Member
Well I know what most people will say.... don't buy them and you'll never have to worry about whether the coin you have is genuine or fake. Fair enough but up till now I'd bought these off Apmex and Gainesville in sheets of 30 so had no compelling reason to worry.

Recently I bought some 2009 Pandas which arrived and instantly aroused my suspicion. They didn't have the usual - tri holder - type case; and the quality of the strike was different. Fonts were different and the "1oz Ag .999" strike looked very messy - almost double struck appearance. The 2009 is shinier and has less 'frostiness' in the strike.

I've scanned the coins together here. I'm hoping an expert might shed some light. Perhaps it is a different mint.

http://chinesepandacoin.blogspot.com/2010/06/2009-chinese-silver-panda-shenzhen.html

describes some differences. The tri holder isn't constant it appears, but his description indicates the non tri holder is more frosty; whereas here they are less. These might be from the Shanghai mint. Anyhow here they are:

PandaRev.jpg


PandaObv.jpg
 
Wow, if the middle coin is fake it's a bloody good one ! The positioning of the Yuan symbol just about the field line is a concern. The obverse looks pretty good, but is the first step on an angle or is it just me ?

The fakes are getting better & better, Have you weighed them ? They should be exactly 1 toz.

Oh yeah get your Loupe into the top of the temple. Should see plenty of detail there (Corrugations) on the roof.
 
Dynoman said:
Wow, if the middle coin is fake it's a bloody good one ! The positioning of the Yuan symbol just about the field line is a concern. The obverse looks pretty good, but is the first step on an angle or is it just me ?

The fakes are getting better & better, Have you weighed them ? They should be exactly 1 toz.

Oh yeah get your Loupe into the top of the temple. Should see plenty of detail there (Corrugations) on the roof.
Click to expand...

The "10" is a little smaller on the 2009 vs the others.

The yuan symbol goes over the demarcation into the top area on the 2009 and the 2010. It is slightly under on the 2011.

The "1oz Ag .999" strike is the only real BIG difference on the 2009. It has a double struck appearance that is slightly offset. And it has a different "sheen" or frost from the other two.

Interestingly the 2010 weighs 0.998 ozt! And the 2009 weighs 1.001 ozt. The weight would be the most obvious giveaway of a fake coin I would think. The dimensions look OK in that it is 40mm wide and about 3mm thick on the 2009 and 2010.

Its probably a slightly off strike if it is double struck. I think an XRF machine would be useful but don't know who in Brisbane has one.
 
I'm hoping PandaCollector will chime in at some point.

But there's some new information. This was the first coin I squeezed out of the bubble wrap they came in. I thought to myself why havent I looked at the other coins yet?

Turns out there are both tri holder and non triholder types. The 1oz Ag .999 font is sharp to very sharp on all the others like the 2010 and 2011 above.

Given the dimensions and weight are spot on; the quality of finish is good; and that variant mintings are recognised; together with the fact the seller is reputable I have concluded they are 99.999% real.

The coin I've randomly selected to sample shows an obvious DD (doubled die) error which apparently has been noted before.

So its just a bit of a rarity it seems. Again I'll wait to hear from PandaCollector.
 
Beautiful coins a lovely series,but like others have stated I'm afraid i will end up with a fake. omho!
 
intelligencer said:
Given the dimensions and weight are spot on; the quality of finish is good; and that variant mintings are recognised; together with the fact the seller is reputable I have concluded they are 99.999% real.

The coin I've randomly selected to sample shows an obvious DD (doubled die) error which apparently has been noted before.

So its just a bit of a rarity it seems. Again I'll wait to hear from PandaCollector.
Click to expand...

I recently ordered and just waiting to receive some pandas from APMEX as well. Did you get yours from them? I wasn't worried at all about buying from them as I assumed that they source the coins straight from the mints (or at least from the biggest authorized dealers in China). The 2009 is my favourite of the lot...can't wait to check them out.
 
intelligencer said:
Given the dimensions and weight are spot on; the quality of finish is good; and that variant mintings are recognised; together with the fact the seller is reputable I have concluded they are 99.999% real.
Click to expand...
Had me thinking for a bit too. I grabbed my lot out to check and note that they're a mix of the two mintings from the blogspot link. Well, as far as my dodgy eyesight can tell
 
A good way is to check the edge (see image below) the 'newer' one have diagonal edges making it harder for people to fake it. I am not saying that it's the bullet proof way to check but it's quite reliable. You can also check your coins against mine. I have had my pandas proven to be real so it should give you a good reference point.
pan.jpg

Source:
 
Yep diagonal reeding all OK.

The 2009 appears to have larger lettering closer to the edge than the 2010 and 2011.

I've compared one of the "triholder" type 2009 with my known good coins and they are definitely real.

And comparing that 2009 to the one here also shows all the right details, just with the DD error.

So all in all I'm pretty happy. Just have to put this in a baggie and mark as "Error coin - dont sell".
 
intelligencer said:
Yep diagonal reeding all OK.

The 2009 appears to have larger lettering closer to the edge than the 2010 and 2011.

I've compared one of the "triholder" type 2009 with my known good coins and they are definitely real.

And comparing that 2009 to the one here also shows all the right details, just with the DD error.

So all in all I'm pretty happy. Just have to put this in a baggie and mark as "Error coin - dont sell".
Click to expand...
...or you can sell it to me with a 'defect' tag:)..
 
:)

Here is a closer crop... Note that this is on a scanner bed, not a photo, so it isn't camera shake. You can see dust resolved here singly.

Doubling.jpg


You can see why I would have been taken aback I think.
 
There is a lot of paranoia surrounding the pandas. To be completely honest, I haven't seen a fake panda that looked genuine. The weights are usually off, or the coins are in bad condition, or the look of the coin is way off. In photographs it is hard to tell, but in person it is fairly easy to distinguish real from fake - especially if you are use to handling the real ones.

If you got the coins from Apmex and Gainesville you can be pretty sure they are all ok, and you got yourself something special.

Just follow the simple rules for Pandas:
Gold Pandas: Only buy them in their original satchels. I haven't seen a fake gold coin ever come in an original satchel. (Not to say they don't exist... I just haven't seen one yet)
Silver Pandas: Use common sense, Apmex and Gainesville are both reliable. Also stick with the 2010 and 2011 series if you're paranoid but want a premier silver coin. These have been incredibly hard to fake and probably will be for a long long time.

The most common fakes I've seen out here in China are definitely the Morgan dollars and silver Britannias not so much the Pandas. Heaps and heaps of em...

The place where I find the greatest number of fake Pandas is surprisingly not in China, it's on Ebay (USA)... kinda makes sense though; you cheat the wrong guy in China (e.g. a government official) and you can expect to have your human rights violated.
 
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