Whats the difference? 
1oz "bar" or "blob"of 99.99 gold vs 1oz $200 denominated 99.99 gold coin
- Thread starter lucky luke
- Start date
99.99 blob has no numismatic value, where $200 coin has...incase gold drops below $200AUD/oz, then government will 'guarantee' you with $200 value for that coin...
Whats the difference?
A generic blob is almost always nearer to the spot price.
Although in the worst conditions all gold may be confiscated I believe legislation exists that makes coins easy to recall.. not sure of the exact law possibly some other stacker might recall the appropriate section I think comes under the currency acts.
The old words of Jesus comes to mind “ give unto Cesar what is Cesar’s give unto god what is god’s. Replace Elisabeth with Cesar to get the idea.
Also the basis for the interest in foreign currency ie not a past or current monarch
Cheer$
The old words of Jesus comes to mind “ give unto Cesar what is Cesar’s give unto god what is god’s. Replace Elisabeth with Cesar to get the idea.
Also the basis for the interest in foreign currency ie not a past or current monarch
Cheer$
betterinvestmentthanshare
Well-Known Member
Realistically there is no difference , 1oz is 1oz.
Having said that, the reason why there is a difference in retail cost is premiums set by dealer, mintage, availability and condition.
People tend to pay a higher price for something that looks prettier than the norm and collectors will pay an even higher price if mintage is low.
At the end of the day, gold is gold and it’s only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.
Having said that, the reason why there is a difference in retail cost is premiums set by dealer, mintage, availability and condition.
People tend to pay a higher price for something that looks prettier than the norm and collectors will pay an even higher price if mintage is low.
At the end of the day, gold is gold and it’s only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.
Fred Rouda
New Member
The risk of confiscation would be extremely low..imo
That the aus govt would do that ..snd even if they did. They'd have to prove you haven't lost it.. Assuming they had records of purchase..
Others have also stated..
A coin carries government backing and generally is more appealing to the eye than a blob.. Given beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
That the aus govt would do that ..snd even if they did. They'd have to prove you haven't lost it.. Assuming they had records of purchase..
Others have also stated..
A coin carries government backing and generally is more appealing to the eye than a blob.. Given beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
^^^
you have, mate… cause you’ve been melting your own blob.
you have, mate… cause you’ve been melting your own blob.
With the premium dynamics I find myself buying coins on the way down and bars on the way up, selling the opposite trade
Confiscation is legally virtually impossible here in Australia & as was already highlighted, they'd have to prove you had it first... How many of you would March willingly to a government outlet and hand over all your metals at a lower than market price in exchange for a pile of fiat fresh off the presses?
On a long enough time line almost all metal will return to the crucible so when push comes to shove: An ounce of gold is an ounce of gold, the most of it I can get for my paper is the way I'd go because if you need to liquidate in a hurry, you're only going to get spot for it anyway.
On a long enough time line almost all metal will return to the crucible so when push comes to shove: An ounce of gold is an ounce of gold, the most of it I can get for my paper is the way I'd go because if you need to liquidate in a hurry, you're only going to get spot for it anyway.
I don't think confiscation is likely but I'm not so sure it couldn't happen in Australia.
Back in 1996 they virtually confiscated our firearms. Yes, only certain types were on the hit list but here, in QLD at least, the government of the time had almost no records of what private citizens actually had. Prior to this year firearms were not registered to individuals and records of individual serial numbers were not kept. You did have to sign for a firearm when you got it from a dealer, but once you had it you could pretty much sell it to anyone you wanted over 18 years of age. Proving a person still had anything at the time would have been almost impossible.
Even so, more than half were tuned in that year for whatever the government at the time said they were worth. This was done by thousands of people who did march willingly into a government outlet and hand them over. Snice then there have been many amnesties where more people walked willingly into government outlets and handed them over for nothing. Now 26 years after the fact, most of the firearms from that era are gone one way or another.
If the government made a law that said you are not allowed to own gold bullion and you decided to keep it, how would you sell it? to whom? what could you use it for? and what would other people want it for?
Ultimately if you can't readily trade something for fiat currency or use it yourself the item is pretty much worthless.
Back in 1996 they virtually confiscated our firearms. Yes, only certain types were on the hit list but here, in QLD at least, the government of the time had almost no records of what private citizens actually had. Prior to this year firearms were not registered to individuals and records of individual serial numbers were not kept. You did have to sign for a firearm when you got it from a dealer, but once you had it you could pretty much sell it to anyone you wanted over 18 years of age. Proving a person still had anything at the time would have been almost impossible.
Even so, more than half were tuned in that year for whatever the government at the time said they were worth. This was done by thousands of people who did march willingly into a government outlet and hand them over. Snice then there have been many amnesties where more people walked willingly into government outlets and handed them over for nothing. Now 26 years after the fact, most of the firearms from that era are gone one way or another.
If the government made a law that said you are not allowed to own gold bullion and you decided to keep it, how would you sell it? to whom? what could you use it for? and what would other people want it for?
Ultimately if you can't readily trade something for fiat currency or use it yourself the item is pretty much worthless.
You make a very valid and poignant point, one I had not previously considered!!
I live to have my mind changed on things & you sir are well on the way to changing my mind about this.
My only reservations would be that (as was wittnessed by the Krugerrand in S.A.) surely a "black" market for precious metals would quickly spring up that would possibly see metals going for prices in excess of the global market price, especially while (or assuming that) the rest of the world continued trading metals as usual?
I have a couple of other similar reservations such as Gold & Silver not being deadly weapons, the campaign to criminalize ownership would be a much harder sell to "the people" etc
I agree there would be a black market for gold and silver but there would be a lot less trading than there is now. For example, without bullion dealers or public forums like this one how would you locate prospective buyers and sellers? If the items were illegal and only attractive to a small percentage of the population it would make it hard to do the deal. Also, with an ever decreasing supply of new items coming along the overall number of items in circulation would decrease.
You would be a fool to think there isn't a black market for illegal firearms in Australia, but the market would be limited pretty well to people who more than likely want to use firearms to commit criminal acts. Going off some of the prices I have seen quoted in the media over the years for firearms on the black market, you are correct, they are far in excess of the fair market value of the items. Also to 'use' an illegal firearm for a legitimate activity like target practice or hunting would be difficult. They are loud and when fired quickly draw attention. Most licenced shooters can quickly recognise a 'restricted' or 'prohibited' category of firearm from looks and sound. They will and do talk.
If you look at the 1933 prohibition of gold in the USA, the vast majority of gold was handed in. This is evident now where "pre '33" gold fetches a considerable premium because it is rare. I concede 1933 was a long time ago and it was the USA not Australia.
In short I believe 'confiscating' gold could happen here and even though a black market would almost certainly open up, it would reduce the amount of gold in public hands down to almost nothing, citing the lack of Category C/D/R firearms in Australia and pre '33 gold in the USA as examples.
I have not heard about the Krugerrands in S.A., can you tell me what happened there?
You would be a fool to think there isn't a black market for illegal firearms in Australia, but the market would be limited pretty well to people who more than likely want to use firearms to commit criminal acts. Going off some of the prices I have seen quoted in the media over the years for firearms on the black market, you are correct, they are far in excess of the fair market value of the items. Also to 'use' an illegal firearm for a legitimate activity like target practice or hunting would be difficult. They are loud and when fired quickly draw attention. Most licenced shooters can quickly recognise a 'restricted' or 'prohibited' category of firearm from looks and sound. They will and do talk.
If you look at the 1933 prohibition of gold in the USA, the vast majority of gold was handed in. This is evident now where "pre '33" gold fetches a considerable premium because it is rare. I concede 1933 was a long time ago and it was the USA not Australia.
In short I believe 'confiscating' gold could happen here and even though a black market would almost certainly open up, it would reduce the amount of gold in public hands down to almost nothing, citing the lack of Category C/D/R firearms in Australia and pre '33 gold in the USA as examples.
I have not heard about the Krugerrands in S.A., can you tell me what happened there?
South Africa was suffering under international sanctions imposed due to Apartheid & the regime that upheld it.
The one thing they did have that everyone wanted was gold... Thus the first bullion coins, the Krugerrand was born in 1968. The only people who dare buy them were criminals, other rogue nations (Russia, Iran, countless other African & middle eastern military junta's etc) & the Swiss
This is why Krugerrands dated between 68 & sometime in the late 1970's command a much higher premium than those dated 1980 or later... Because they must have originally come from nefarious sources.
The one thing they did have that everyone wanted was gold... Thus the first bullion coins, the Krugerrand was born in 1968. The only people who dare buy them were criminals, other rogue nations (Russia, Iran, countless other African & middle eastern military junta's etc) & the Swiss
This is why Krugerrands dated between 68 & sometime in the late 1970's command a much higher premium than those dated 1980 or later... Because they must have originally come from nefarious sources.
I thought you might think that when I wrote it but kinda thought Krugerrands clarified... sorry!!
If your worried about gold/silver being confiscated you should be more concerned with what tomorrow brings with changing tax rules.
I mean literally government can change any tax laws on a whim and you pay. No getting out of it as they are pushing a cashless society so they know every cent you have, where it is and every part of your spending habits.
Imagine how stuffed you would be if they decided your primary place of residence is no longer tax except when you sell it and tax it at your marginal rate that financial year.
Don’t think it can happen, take a look how they chop and change SMSF rules.
Timmy
I mean literally government can change any tax laws on a whim and you pay. No getting out of it as they are pushing a cashless society so they know every cent you have, where it is and every part of your spending habits.
Imagine how stuffed you would be if they decided your primary place of residence is no longer tax except when you sell it and tax it at your marginal rate that financial year.
Don’t think it can happen, take a look how they chop and change SMSF rules.
Timmy
I think I am mentioned earlier (in reference to Silver Tuesday) if one ever finds a way to beat the system, the system will just change the rules & make what one is doing a criminal offence. (The Bunker-Hunt brothers/Silver Tuesday should serve as a cautionary tale for all)
To be honest, I can't ever seeing the Australian government confiscating it. All they'd need to do is introduce a special transfer excise on transactions that involve gold or silver for anything over face value.
Remember that (at least for now), every coin that's been made in Australia (with the exception of the Holey Dollar and the Dump - and [I think] early proclamation coins) are still legal tender. Even that 1930 penny you have in the back of your coin jar can still be still be used as a 1c credit toward your ATO bill, and they cannot refuse accepting it (as it's an *existing* debt).
All they'd need to do is stop you from exchanging your gold at a coin shop (without paying an exorbitant transfer tax) and it would effectively become worthless. Yes, we could still use it for private FTF transactions, but have you ever tried using 1966 50c or 1/20th oz of gold pieces to pay for your groceries? The sheeples just don't want it. Far easier than trying to confiscate gold that may or may not exist.