1930 Penny. Just another Fake

Silver Soul

Silver Soul

Well-Known Member
Silver Stacker
Personally, I have to ask myself what this sellers motives are! To fill you in on the play please draw your attention to this sale.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281016530561?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Fake! Of course it is. The seller knows it as well. Yet they list it with some Bullshit story about a deceased estate...... What a con. While the hooks are baited for all the Noobs, they also sleeeze their way out of doing no wrong by adding in the sales pitch "It looks good but think that the number is changed" (this is only my opinion). :rolleyes: They got that right. If this seller had a dinkum 1930 penny they wouldn't have started auction @ $15.00 that is for sure ;) Now if I was to find a penny of this date, it would be straight down to a good coin shop to confirm the find, after the researching, and cementing my own knowledge to the coin if a copy, I would never lower myself to selling this type of coin without stipulating it was a fake. I hope no noobs here are bidding on this hunk of copper junk :|

374_001wei.jpg


374_003vo.jpg


Unfortunately I can not change the price or outcome of this auction, much as I wish too...... but all the warning signals are there to be questioned......confirmed fake :P
 
Yup... Would be good to highlight what you have identified in the coin. Good future reference for anyone else.

I also love it when people say estate sale. Then you see they are selling individual coins separately. Yeah good one.

You can advise the seller that you believe it is a fake. That way you are not accusing so to speak. You can also report it to ebay as a fake as well. Up to $510 already. That is a lot for a piece of fake copper.
 
the seller has said its a cut and paste job on the "0" on the 1930 date, so really its stupid buyers you need to be angry at for being so stupid :(

edit: who in their right mind would sell a real 1930 penny on ebay
 
uuuuuuuumm said:
the seller has said its a cut and paste job on the "0" on the 1930 date, so really its stupid buyers you need to be angry at for being so stupid :(

edit: who in their right mind would sell a real 1930 penny on ebay
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Yep' That's why I'm intrigued by the sellers motives! herding the dumb to be fleeced.
 
Silver Soul said:
uuuuuuuumm said:
the seller has said its a cut and paste job on the "0" on the 1930 date, so really its stupid buyers you need to be angry at for being so stupid :(

edit: who in their right mind would sell a real 1930 penny on ebay
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Yep' That's why I'm intrigued by the sellers motives! herding the dumb to be fleeced.
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yep :/
 
Well you could say it plays a part of our Numismatic heritage. As this is an early forgery by the looks of it. So from that perspective it may hold some collector value.

Not sure on the legality of it all though ?
 
It's counterfeit currency, which makes it a job for the AFP currency team.

Stupid stupid stupid of the seller.
 
it would also be advantageous if you got the title of the thread right for any future searches
 
wwwww said:
It's not an altered date, it's a modern counterfeit, probably of Chinese origins.
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I don't believe so. Modern forgeries are done by electroplating or punching. Some older ones are done from castings as well.

This is an old technique described in "Collecting and Investing in Australian Coins and Banknotes" the copy I have is a 1990 version. I also have older references to this process as well.

It could be wrong, and always happy to be corrected, but I do think it is an older version.
 
If it wasn't so bloody expensive, I'd love to own it! just so I could analyse it better for myself :P
 
goldpelican said:
It's counterfeit currency, which makes it a job for the AFP currency team.

Stupid stupid stupid of the seller.
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What's the bet the sale goes through, Ebay collects their fee and absolutely nothing is done about it.

Anyone got a hotline number or Email address you can report this to?

An anon email to this auction I'm sure would be more than enough - if we knew who to send it to.

Counterfitters are a scourge and should be thrown to the wolves.


EDIT : Found it

www.afp.gov.au/contact/report-a-crime.aspx

How do I report a crime to the AFP?

You can report a Commonwealth crime online by using our form. - Link : https://forms.afp.gov.au/online_forms/report_a_crime

Anonymous information

If you would like to provide anonymous information about any crime (State, Territory or Commonwealth crimes) please phone Crimestoppers on 1800 333 000 or go to www.crimestoppers.com.au.

Counterfeit currency
Introduction

Counterfeiting of currency worldwide by organised crime groups or individuals has the potential to undermine public confidence in the currency and impact heavily on governments, business and individuals alike.
Legislation

All State, Territory and Federal police are authorised under the Crimes (Currency) Act 1981 to seize and prosecute currency related matters. The legislation covers domestic and foreign currencies (including US dollars and Euros).
AFP Currency Team

The Australian Federal Police (AFP) and the Reserve Bank of Australia (RBA) have entered into a working agreement for the administration of counterfeit currency. All currency related matters are coordinated and administered from a central location by the AFP with administrative support provided by the RBA.
How to identify a counterfeit banknote

The RBA has responsibility for the production and issue, reissue and cancellation of Australia's banknotes. A full description of banknotes and their security features, together with a list of frequently asked questions (FAQ), including advice on reproduction of banknote images, can be found by accessing the 'Banknotes' tab on the RBA Homepage.
How to identify a counterfeit coin

The Australian Mint (RAM) is a prescribed agency within the Commonwealth portfolio of the Treasurer and is the sole supplier of Australia's circulating coinage. Information relating to coins, policies and guidelines (including the RAM's Damaged Coin Policy) together with a list of frequently asked questions (FAQ) can be found on the RAM Homepage.
What to do if you receive a suspected counterfeit

If you are in possession of suspected counterfeit banknotes, counterfeit coins or counterfeit prescribed securities you should contact your local police or the Australian Federal Police in your state/territory. You should also complete a Suspect counterfeit banknote form detailing the circumstances of how you came into possession of the counterfeit to assist police.

If there is no police involvement you should send the suspected counterfeit, together with a completed Suspect counterfeit banknote form via registered mail to the AFP Currency Team postal address. A property receipt will be forwarded to you acknowledging receipt of the property.
Law enforcement
Evidentiary (Statement required)

The Treasurer, by instrument in writing, has appointed appropriately qualified RBA personnel to be examiners of counterfeit foreign paper money under the Crimes (Currency) Act 1981.

Law enforcement agencies requiring expert witness statements for court should contact the Australian Federal Police. As part of the process you will be requested to complete a Suspect counterfeit banknote form.
Forfeiture and Seizure

Following a successful prosecution and where the court is satisfied that any article is forfeited under the S.29 Crimes (Currency) Act 1981 a condemnation order should be sought for the disposal of the property. The property, together with a copy of the order, should then be sent to the AFP Currency team who will coordinate the disposal of the property in accordance with the directions of the Treasurer.

Suspected counterfeit currency not subject of a criminal prosecution should be sent, together with a completed Suspect counterfeit banknote form, via registered mail to the AFP Currency Team postal address. A property receipt will be forwarded to your property office once the property is received.
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http://www.afp.gov.au/policing/counterfeit-currency.aspx
 
From RAM :

Using coin designs

This page contains general information about the legal restrictions which apply to the use of Australian currency coins and the reproduction of coin images and designs. The information in this page is provided as a general guide and should not be relied on as a form of legal advice.

Defacing, destroying or altering Australian currency coins

It is a criminal offence under the Crimes (Currency) Act 1981 (Cth) to deface or destroy current Australian currency coins. It is also an offence to sell or possess current coins that have been defaced. Defacing a coin includes coating the surface of the money with any sort of material. The penalty for defacing coins , or selling or possessing money that has been defaced, is $5,000 or imprisonment for two years for an individual (or both), and $10,000 for a body corporate. You may also be guilty of the offence of making counterfeit money if you alter a genuine coin.

The destruction or alteration of designs used on coins may also infringe the right of the author of the design not to have an artistic work subject to derogatory treatment. The author's rights to 'integrity of authorship' are protected under the Copyright Act 1968 (Cth). If you do something in relation to an artistic work that is prejudicial to the author's honour or reputation, a court can order you to stop the infringing conduct, make a public apology, or pay damages to the artist.
Articles resembling genuine Australian currency coins

It is a criminal offence under the Crimes (Currency) Act 1981 (Cth) to produce an article that resembles a genuine coin. If you produce replica money, and it is possible that a person might be deceived into thinking that the replica money is genuine Australian currency, you may have committed an offence under the Crimes (Currency) Act 1981 (Cth). The penalty for making counterfeit money is imprisonment for 14 years for an individual, and $75,000 for a body corporate. You may also be guilty of an offence if you sell or possess articles which resemble genuine coins.

You should seek legal advice if you propose to make or sell an article that resembles genuine Australian currency. The Mint cannot provide this advice.
Copyright

The Commonwealth holds copyright in the designs and images used on Australian currency coins which were created after 1 May 1969. Copyright gives the copyright owner the exclusive right to reproduce designs and images from two-dimensional to three-dimensional form, and vice versa. Reproduction of designs and images without the permission of the copyright owner will be an infringement of copyright. If you do something that infringes another person's copyright, a court can order you to stop the infringing conduct and pay damages to the copyright owner.

In certain circumstances the Mint may agree to allow members of the public to reproduce coin designs in which it holds copyright. The Mint will not ordinarily grant approval for the reproduction of coin designs on articles which will be commercially produced and offered for sale (for example, articles such as T-shirts or coffee mugs). The Mint will also not grant approval for the reproduction of coin designs in a manner which could lead a person to believe that the Mint has endorsed the product, or is in some way associated with the product. If you wish to reproduce coin designs you should contact the Mint. Failure to do so may result in a breach of copyright and legal action by the Mint.
Click to expand...

General enquiries

Mon-Fri: 8.30 am to 5 pm
Ph: 02 6202 6999
Email: [email protected]

http://www.ramint.gov.au/designs/ram-designs/using.cfm
 
If you're going to blow that amount of money on a coin you've never seen, without any type of research, i reckon you deserve to lose your money.
 
FAKE>

it looks like an altered date to me. I know the legends need to line up with the denticles "little bumps on the rim" but cant remember the positions. I could look it up i guess. I dont own a genuine 1930 btw.

http://www.thesandpit.net/index.php?option=1930_penny

The N in OMN is English mint if between the denticles like the coin above. The overwhelming majority of genuine 1930s Pennies is from the Calcutta mint in India.
And it just screams fake. Clear fields on the obverse, center diamond, 6 pearl + and then a well worked reverse dont add up either, Fake and some poor sucker is out of pocket for half a grand at least.

All Pre Decimal is still legal tender in this country and still protected under our counterfeit laws.
 
I'm sorry but neither eBay nor the (AFP) Currency Team would be interested in this case. It's good commission for eBay and it's no longer legal tender so no one is going to care.

I got an email one day from a former eBay seller from China saying if I want 1930 pennies they were $3 each and I could buy them by the 10s, 100s, 1000s, or 10,000s and they were made from melted down pennies so same composition and they would be tumbled into a circulated condition (F) - (VF).

Of course I just black listed that email address but they are out there and there is not much enforcement on the forgeries so I would not even touch an original personally due to the unfortunately tarnished reputation of them.
 
Just got off the phone with ebay myself after reporting the seller.

In future, simply:

Select "Report the Item" on the listing page,
then select the following categories as shown below:

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This report will then be forwarded to ebay's fraud department.
 
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