$16,OOO,OOO,OOO,OOOBAMA!

[CriticalSilver]

November 16, 2011 was a historic date: that's when the US officially surpassed $15 trillion in debt for the first time since World War 2. We celebrated it by cheering $15,OOO,OOO,OOO,OOOBAMA. Today, August 28, 2012, is when we can unofficially celebrate again, because 286 days after the last major milestone was surpassed with disturbing ease, total US debt following today's $35 billion auction of 2 Year bonds is, well, in a word: $16,OOO,OOO,OOO,OOOBAMA!

...To get just over $16X1012 which means it took 286 days to go from $15 to $16 trillion: $3.5 billion in extra debt every day.


Read more: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/16oooooooooooobama

$3.5 billion deeper in debt every single day ... O! bama! That's incredible! Spending everything they earn plus another $3.5 billion, every day! ... for what? what have they got to show for it? To put it into context, the Apollo program cost $24 billion (in the 1960's through 1970's) and it cost $2.5 billion to design, build and launch the NASA Curiosity Rover (http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2100299,00.html).

And yet they've cancelled the Space Shuttle, leaving Earth with no landable, reusabe space vehicle, unemployment and welfare dependence rates have risen dramatically ... honestly, what have they got to show for it? One thing for sure, Obama hasn't built anything with all his new debt ... besides an out of control police state and increasingly unstable global geopolitical environment, that is.

This is the sort of thing that make me think that a return to pre-2008 financial conditions is highly unlikely, gold is not in a bubble and printing money out of thin air to fund all the crap that goes on is definitely a ponzi system just waiting for the suckers to run out.

 

[Barbarian At The Gate]

Damn pigs! Let me tell you where taxpayers' funds are being skimmed: underground shelters/bases costing hundreds of billions of dollars. The same places where the elite/1%/illuminati will run and hide when the next catastrophe, whatever that is (all part of depopulation) hits us. On wars in Iraq and Afghanistan - and that's just the two big ones. And let's not forget "shadow government" and black ops which have spent billions of dollars of taxpayers' money on projects which will never see the light of day, such as free energy and space travel. Most of it isn't documented, and that's just the way these creeps like it. So yes, there are things that can be shown for it; some in plain view; but it's a matter of knowing where to look. God help America. And the rest of us.

 

[Silber]

I don't know much about politics and finances, especially in the USA, but ... Why seem people to blame Obama for the debts? When he became president, the debt curve was in an exponential (!) rise. Did anybody expect that he could magically turn the curve downward and solve all problems, also considering the global crisis? At a certain point, even if you think the debts can not rise any more, they say "Yes we can". That's the problem with debts. As soon as paying the interest eats up the whole income, there's hardly a way to get out of this trap.

 

[Ernster]

What exactly happens during a default? Lets say the US tell China they can't pay them back? What happens then to the economy and silver price? and what will China do?

 

[Argentum]

they cant say it only to china they have to say it to the world we cant pay our bills. then noone wants to deal with them anymore without collateral, then $ gets devalued and noone wants it anymore and world looks for another reserve currency. at least i think thats what happens

 

[GoldenEgg]

What exactly happens during a default? Lets say the US tell China they can't pay them back? What happens then to the economy and silver price? and what will China do?

Argentina 2001 x 100

 

[Guest]

That's a ridiculous amount of money. Most people earn $2 a day or less. Anyone who thinks America will one day stop borrowing to start paying back is a fool.

We the masses have to demand the politicians and corporate fat cats be held accountable for their actions.

 

[Barbarian At The Gate]

They keep printing to infinity. They try and inflate their pathetic way out of this mess. They create the problem (excessive debt leading to financial collapse), wait for the reaction (do something, do anything, take our freedoms away if you must), then provide the solution (one world government, one world bank, one standing army, one currency). Meanwhile, the Chinese, if they get paid at all, get paid back cents in the dollar. And China, which will have nothing to do with a one world government, and which sits on $3 trillion in reserves, will buy as much physical gold as it can literally get. Both using that gold to back the Yuan and replacing the sham US dollar, ex the militant US and friends (whose sights will be set firmly on a dissident China/Russia), as the world's reserve currency.

The preparations being done by the US: FEMA camps, confiscation of guns, destruction of the Constitution, free passes for banker crooks, expansion of underground bases, toppling of Gaddafi (Saddam Hussein before him) with more to come (essentially those having shunned the "all mighty" US dollar); and those by China: exporting none of its gold despite being the world's largest miner, importing as much as it would necessitate to back the Yuan, freezing further purchases of US treasuries which it deems, correctly, to be worthless; are all indicative of not merely currency wars, but of something much bigger.

And this, my friends, is why we need to be in gold (the domain predominantly of the wealthy) or silver (the domain predominantly of the less wealthy).

[imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/4516_all_seeing_eye.jpg]

[/imgz]

 

[Guest]

Damn pigs! Let me tell you where taxpayers' funds are being skimmed: underground shelters/bases costing hundreds of billions of dollars. The same places where the elite/1%/illuminati will run and hide when the next catastrophe, whatever that is (all part of depopulation) hits us. On wars in Iraq and Afghanistan - and that's just the two big ones. And let's not forget "shadow government" and black ops which have spent billions of dollars of taxpayers' money on projects which will never see the light of day, such as free energy and space travel. Most of it isn't documented, and that's just the way these creeps like it. So yes, there are things that can be shown for it; some in plain view; but it's a matter of knowing where to look. God help America. And the rest of us.

Mate, that's spot on. Untold billions in the black budget of America goes to building underground facilities. The underground bases are by their very nature secretive, that's why we never hear about them.

 

[Earthjade]

Why do people blame Obama for this?
As if another president would cut spending and reduce the debt!
The problem is the system, not the government.

 

[CriticalSilver]

What exactly happens during a default? Lets say the US tell China they can't pay them back? What happens then to the economy and silver price? and what will China do?

That's the big question isn't it, but there are multiple facets to it as you identify. I think the short answer is Precious metals will appreciate to levels that were unthinkable and every sovereign state will mobilise their gold reserves. I really don't like the idea of it, but there will likely be a lot of nationalisation of gold mines and this will cause a whole raft of problems. But nothing compared to the devastation that will occur within the USA. I think of Zimbabwe and hurricane katrina put together.

But then the finacial contagion of such an event will be significant and all the foreign exchange reserves of nations will be worthless and currencies will devalue to the extent that those currencies are tied to the USD and not redeemable for gold or something of tangible worth.

At least that's what I think at the moment, but no one really knows.

 

[errol43]

I thought that Gino might have an answer to the problem of how the USA might be able to pay back their $16 trillion debt by selling their PM at highly inflated prices. Then I done the maths. Is all over red rover unless I have got the maths wrong.

OK lets suppose that the USA does indeed have 8.5 tonns of gold.Metric.

Gold goes to $40000 oz

8.5 tons x 1000kg x 31ozs = 3,635,000 ozs x $40000 oz = $14,540,000,000

Way too short! Back to the drawing board. Might have the maths wrong.. If it is 14.540 trillion then we are back in business.

Please feel free to do your maths on a computer and advise. All figures done with pad and pencil.

I Am only learning to spell you know being a pirate and all.

Regards Errol 43

 

[Aengrod]

The problem is the system, not the government.

System was created by government.

 

[Big A.D.]

OK lets suppose that the USA does indeed have 8.5 tonns of gold.Metric.

Gold goes to $40000 oz

8.5 tons x 1000kg x 31ozs = 3,635,000 ozs x $40000 oz = $14,540,000,000

Way too short! Back to the drawing board. Might have the maths wrong.. If it is 14.540 trillion then we are back in business.

Please feel free to do your maths on a computer and advise. All figures done with pad and pencil.

The U.S. (officially) has 8133.5 tonnes of gold, equal to 261,498,097 troy ounces.

$16000000000000 divided by 261498097 troy ounces equals $61,185.91 per ounce.

Gold would have to hit sixty one grand (plus change) an ounce before the U.S. could pay off all it's debt by selling all it's gold holdings.

 

[CriticalSilver]

I thought that Gino might have an answer to the problem of how the USA might be able to pay back their $16 trillion debt by selling their PM at highly inflated prices. Then I done the maths. Is all over red rover unless I have got the maths wrong.

OK lets suppose that the USA does indeed have 8.5 tonns of gold.Metric.

Gold goes to $40000 oz

8.5 tons x 1000kg x 31ozs = 3,635,000 ozs x $40000 oz = $14,540,000,000

Way too short! Back to the drawing board. Might have the maths wrong.. If it is 14.540 trillion then we are back in business.

Please feel free to do your maths on a computer and advise. All figures done with pad and pencil.

I Am only learning to spell you know being a pirate and all.

Regards Errol 43

I really didn't mean that the US would sell its Gold. I meant that after the default event and the USD becomes worthless, all countries will need to mobilise their gold to back their currencies, because all faith in irredeemable fiat currencies will be lost and the only thing that will restore trust in trade is gold.

It is interesting to note that the total amount of gold held on US soil is significantly greater than their official reserves. If the US government/military can remain cohesive following such a collapse, then the likelihood of any gold leaving the US is around zero I would suggest and a few sovereign nations will awake to find they have no gold reserves to count on at all. In that, I think the US is actually well positioned to come out of the mess in good shape, but to do so they will need to ride out the financial discontinuity event that their default will bring with their gold intact.

Australia on the otherhand, will probably sell all the gold mines to China for poliburo printed bits of paper, right before the crash. It was noteable in yesterday's Financial Review to read that there was no credible foreign Chinese investment that was not backed by the communist government and that all sorts of Australian politicians and commentators were calling on Australia to sell more of itself to the Chinese government for said bits of paper. :/

 

[Yippe-Ki-Ya]

I don't know much about politics and finances, especially in the USA, but ... Why seem people to blame Obama for the debts? When he became president, the debt curve was in an exponential (!) rise.

Obama deserves the blame because spending under his regime dwarfed the Bush administration's spending... even if it was already unsustainable/exponential as you say.

Being the true socialist that he is - he made whatever situation he inherited a lot lot worse!

 

[hawkeye]

I don't know much about politics and finances, especially in the USA, but ... Why seem people to blame Obama for the debts? When he became president, the debt curve was in an exponential (!) rise.

I agree. The US government is pretty much a runaway train. There's nothing the driver can do at this point. Too much resistance to any kind of change. No-one wants to be the one who suffers.

Pull the brake and the train crashes. Pour on the gas and it will eventually go off the rails.

I think politicians see the latter as the only option at this point. At least it will delay the day of reckoning for awhile and they may not be around to face it when it does if they are lucky.

 

[Big A.D.]

What exactly happens during a default? Lets say the US tell China they can't pay them back? What happens then to the economy and silver price? and what will China do?

Firstly, nothing because everyone is in a state of shock.

Next, China would come to some kind of agreement with the U.S. to exchange the now overdue debts for new debt with a longer payback period. Many people would see that as China having confidence in the U.S. and therefore everything is going to be okay. Everyone else would be quietly dumping U.S. securities before the run starts. This period would be a very volatile period and the U.S. Treasury and Fed would intervene directly to calm the markets and make some promises about increasing growth and cutting expenditure. Depending on who's on the political scene at the time, the Tea Party will try to hammer the Democrats to score political points and that will create division in the government. That division will cause the markets to start freaking out properly as they realise (a) the U.S. is in a really bad place, and (b) nobody in power is willing or able to fix things.

China's deal with the U.S. will include concessions that don't include money, because China recognises that U.S. currency is in the process of becoming worthless. The concessions might include hard assets like gold, access to hard assets in places that the U.S. either directly or indirectly controls and a mixture of intellectual property and technology. China will ultimately be prepared to write off it's investments in U.S. government securities, but like any creditor, it will first try to claw back as much value as it can.

Commodities might still be quoted in U.S. dollars, but there will also be spot markets in other currencies that pop up relatively quickly. China will start releasing a lot more data about the size, strength and value of it's economy. It won't look great, but they would do it anyway since their goal would be to simply look better than the Americans.

Money would start flowing out of USD, into the Euro and from there into China and other Asian currencies. The AUD would yo-yo for a while because a bad global economy usually pushes it down but our raw material exports to China push it up and it will take a while for people to figure out what fair value is for the immediate future.

This process would take between a few weeks and a few months and then things would be poised for a U.S. crash.

 

[bordsilver]

What exactly happens during a default? Lets say the US tell China they can't pay them back? What happens then to the economy and silver price? and what will China do?

China's deal with the U.S. will include concessions that don't include money, because China recognises that U.S. currency is in the process of becoming worthless. The concessions might include hard assets like gold, access to hard assets in places that the U.S. either directly or indirectly controls and a mixture of intellectual property and technology. China will ultimately be prepared to write off it's investments in U.S. government securities, but like any creditor, it will first try to claw back as much value as it can.

I reckon they'll start trading a few of these:

But if that doesn't work, then the U.S. may decide to trade these goods and services:

Followed by this if they need some yet more of America's products: