15% GST on silver bullion in Australia

[SpacePete]

I also wonder if this could result in some less profitable dealers going under?

 

[Porcello]

How would 15% GST on bullion affect selling back to dealers?

there shouldn't be any difference for end users selling back to dealers. If you are not considered a business (i.e. you sell less than a certain volume) you don't have to be GST registered.

What about the buyback price though? If you purchased from a dealer and paid the 15% GST, that would be lost on resale back to a dealer.

yes, that is what happens in countries where GST/VAT on silver applies. And this is also what happens in Australia when you buy Kruggerrands and Gold Eagles. GST is a tax on the end purchaser.

 

[willrocks]

How would 15% GST on bullion affect selling back to dealers?

there shouldn't be any difference for end users selling back to dealers. If you are not considered a business (i.e. you sell less than a certain volume) you don't have to be GST registered.

So what about this scenario. I purchase a bullion bar for $100 + 15% GST - a total outlay of $115. For hypothetical reasons I need to immediately sell it back to the dealer, who is extremely fair and offers spot buyback. He gives me $100 for my bar. So I'm down 15% on my investment, and the dealer isn't to blame, the Gov took my cash.

In the above investment scenario It may be better for serious investors to create a GST business entity in order to claim back the 15% on bullion purchases.

 

[Porcello]

How would 15% GST on bullion affect selling back to dealers?

there shouldn't be any difference for end users selling back to dealers. If you are not considered a business (i.e. you sell less than a certain volume) you don't have to be GST registered.

So what about this scenario. I purchase a bullion bar for $100 + 15% GST - a total outlay of $115. For hypothetical reasons I need to immediately sell it back to the dealer, who is extremely fair and offers spot buyback. He gives me $100 for my bar. So I'm down 15% on my investment, and the dealer isn't to blame, the Gov took my cash.

In the above investment scenario It may be better for serious investors to create a GST business entity in order to claim back the 15% on bullion purchases.

In theory yes. But then you lose the anonymity of your metal holdings and the government can tax you for capital gain or the profits from your sales will need to be declared as additional yearly income. If you just want to leave metals to your kids when you die they might be hit by an inheritance tax like it happens in many countries.

Rest assured that every time you try to use legal ways to recover money confiscated by the government they will find a way to hit you back with an even bigger whammy.

PS: in my original country, GST on investment silver is 22%. Nobody buys silver there.

 

[Porcello]

That's right. Big multinational companies are much more powerful than individual countries. And wait until the TTIP and similar craps become fully operational!

 

[Court Jester]

No GST on bullion as yet, but coins of gold less than pure do attract it. And socialised medicine works ok in Au, the problem with the US system is down to the structure of your healthcare industry, where pills are so expensive it's cheaper for people journey to Canada to fill a prescription and HMOs more often fail to meet the needs of the "covered" individuals, at least according to primary care physicians.

http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1105592

under managed care physicians are less able to avoid conflicts of interest and less able to place the best interests of patients first. The majority responded that quality of health care is compromised by limitations in location of diagnostic tests, length of hospital stay, and choice of specialists. A significant minority (27%-49%) noted a decrease in the physician's ability to carry out ethical obligations, to respect patient autonomy, and to respect confidentiality in physician-patient communication.

Not all yanks are stupid, but I'd venture to say many Aussies would prefer to avoid many of the facets of American culture which creep into our way of life, and aren't overly fond of our involvement in the wars you drag us into.

I understand your defensive retort to CJs trolling, but you'd be better off not taking the bait.

not trolling calling a spade a spade.

though I will admit I did not know some US states dont have sales tax this is quite interesting. ( none of the ones I visited though -- and FYI it is so annoying all prices being show EX tax -- it is bloody annoying when yourt 99c hotdog is $1.08 and you need to not only find a dollar note in their stupid money that all looks the same and then some pennies. for teh tax. )

 

[FlashInThePan]

Taxing money itself is as warped as negative interest rates - never before set in to play in 5000 years of monetary history. It is a symptom of a system breaking down IMHO. Desperate ideas in the works to clamp down with capital controls before the fire doors are slammed closed so everyone will burn except those wise enough to get out. There is no equality in theft of property, only theft by taxation, inflation or confiscation. A tax on natural money is a form of theft by deception by mixing up the understanding of property rights. I think this thread itself plays into this misunderstanding by discussing it at all, like there is credibility behind it promoting a corrupt principality.

Natural money normally does not generate interest, to tax it as well is nuts. One of the reason paper has been embraced as a key enticer to take people out of physical to paper/digits.

The love / hate relationship between paper and physical has become increasingly fierce at the present. it is not surprising that the regulators drowning in debt may just loose it by embracing tyrannical unlawful methods by encoding it into their statutes.

 

[mmm....shiney!]

While on the topic, taxing productivity is ludicrous.

 

[FlashInThePan]

That's right. Big multinational companies are much more powerful than individual countries. And wait until the TTIP and similar craps become fully operational!

That is a situation that needs to be corrected. I fear it will be a difficult cup to swallow and the people now are largely unaware of what has been slowly implemented around us may start to accelerate before the brakes can be slammed.

Government is supposed to regulate the corporation for the peoples benefit. The corporation is to operate at a level below government, not above.

Apparently government have demoted themselves (and the peoples status also for that matter). One can only but imagine the deals made in secret to forge this new incestuous relationship.

 

[FlashInThePan]

While on the topic, taxing productivity is ludicrous.

Not if you are in debt

 

[SpacePete]

The government could simply reduce spending, eliminate excessive benefits for retired politicians, and generally act in a more responsible way when it comes to taxation revenue.

 

[FlashInThePan]

The government could simply reduce spending, eliminate excessive benefits for retired politicians, and generally act in a more responsible way when it comes to taxation revenue.

I think the further the layers of government one may peel back, will find a position not in line with conventional logic, operating on a very diferent prescribed agenda.

 

[SpacePete]

I also wonder if this could result in some less profitable dealers going under?

Sorry for quoting myself, but I think it's dissapointing that a supposedly pro-business government Would be destroying small business viability through tax increases.

A 15% GST will most definitely alter buying habits. Many more people will simply order from overseas.

 

[Porcello]

I also wonder if this could result in some less profitable dealers going under?

Sorry for quoting myself, but I think it's dissapointing that a supposedly pro-business government Would be destroying small business viability through tax increases.

A 15% GST will most definitely alter buying habits. Many more people will simply order from overseas.

No worries. The government will be glad to introduce a nice import duty with the honorable goal to protect local business.

 

[Stroctor]

Where's this from?

I'm just channeling government policy from a potential future that I hope will not come about, but fear every time I hear politicians pushing for changes to GST, such as now with the conversation around increasing GST to 15%. They are never satisfied and always want more more more.

Capitalism, corporatism, and bankers.
Aka: More, More, More.

Definitely nothing to do with the giant welfare state and socialist policies /s

 

[SpacePete]

I'm just channeling government policy from a potential future that I hope will not come about, but fear every time I hear politicians pushing for changes to GST, such as now with the conversation around increasing GST to 15%. They are never satisfied and always want more more more.

Capitalism, corporatism, and bankers.
Aka: More, More, More.

Definitely nothing to do with the giant welfare state and socialist policies /s

Curse those socialist F-35s and the billions transferred to the socialist RBA.

 

[Stroctor]

No GST on bullion as yet, but coins of gold less than pure do attract it. And socialised medicine works ok in Au, the problem with the US system is down to the structure of your healthcare industry, where pills are so expensive it's cheaper for people journey to Canada to fill a prescription and HMOs more often fail to meet the needs of the "covered" individuals, at least according to primary care physicians.

http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1105592

under managed care physicians are less able to avoid conflicts of interest and less able to place the best interests of patients first. The majority responded that quality of health care is compromised by limitations in location of diagnostic tests, length of hospital stay, and choice of specialists. A significant minority (27%-49%) noted a decrease in the physician's ability to carry out ethical obligations, to respect patient autonomy, and to respect confidentiality in physician-patient communication.

Not all yanks are stupid, but I'd venture to say many Aussies would prefer to avoid many of the facets of American culture which creep into our way of life, and aren't overly fond of our involvement in the wars you drag us into.

I understand your defensive retort to CJs trolling, but you'd be better off not taking the bait.

I would say that the European culture of the welfare state is the thing that is creeping into the US. We are supposed to be a Constitutional Republic, but are morphing into to a Social Democracy similar to what Europeans are used to.

 

[willrocks]

While on the topic, taxing productivity is ludicrous.

I agree. But taxing the unproductive is impossible.

 

[Court Jester]

Taxing money itself is as warped as negative interest rates - never before set in to play in 5000 years of monetary history. It is a symptom of a system breaking down IMHO. Desperate ideas in the works to clamp down with capital controls before the fire doors are slammed closed so everyone will burn except those wise enough to get out. There is no equality in theft of property, only theft by taxation, inflation or confiscation. A tax on natural money is a form of theft by deception by mixing up the understanding of property rights. I think this thread itself plays into this misunderstanding by discussing it at all, like there is credibility behind it promoting a corrupt principality.

Natural money normally does not generate interest, to tax it as well is nuts. One of the reason paper has been embraced as a key enticer to take people out of physical to paper/digits.

The love / hate relationship between paper and physical has become increasingly fierce at the present. it is not surprising that the regulators drowning in debt may just loose it by embracing tyrannical unlawful methods by encoding it into their statutes.

no one is taxing "money"

SILVER and GOLD are NOT money any more and have not been for a very long time now.

 

[Jim4silver]

Taxing money itself is as warped as negative interest rates - never before set in to play in 5000 years of monetary history. It is a symptom of a system breaking down IMHO. Desperate ideas in the works to clamp down with capital controls before the fire doors are slammed closed so everyone will burn except those wise enough to get out. There is no equality in theft of property, only theft by taxation, inflation or confiscation. A tax on natural money is a form of theft by deception by mixing up the understanding of property rights. I think this thread itself plays into this misunderstanding by discussing it at all, like there is credibility behind it promoting a corrupt principality.

Natural money normally does not generate interest, to tax it as well is nuts. One of the reason paper has been embraced as a key enticer to take people out of physical to paper/digits.

The love / hate relationship between paper and physical has become increasingly fierce at the present. it is not surprising that the regulators drowning in debt may just loose it by embracing tyrannical unlawful methods by encoding it into their statutes.

no one is taxing "money"

SILVER and GOLD are NOT money any more and have not been for a very long time now.

Court Jester,

"Currency" and "money" are not the same thing. PM's are not currency anymore, but they are still money. I don't mean this with respect to taxation issues or not, just general nomenclature.

Have a beautiful day!

http://hiddensecretsofmoney.com/videos/episode-1

Jim