15% GST on silver bullion in Australia

[EurGold]

I'm fortunate to live in a place that does not tax the purchase of PM's. I have no doubt that someday if gold and silver ever really went super crazy, like maybe $500+ per ounce of silver- this could happen in a true currency collapse type situation), they would come up with some sort of special "windfall tax" to get their share when people sold (instead of the normal tax rate that applies now to capital gains for PM sales).

Jim

Why would people sell their silver for FIAT if its not the price of silver going up but the value and spending power of the currency going down?

Silver is NOT money has not been for a long time now

So silver will always have the same approximate purchasing power, people will buy just to hedge against inflation/currency collapse then?

 

[raven]

Some people live week to week, paycheque to paycheque I guess !

 

[Jim4silver]

I'm fortunate to live in a place that does not tax the purchase of PM's. I have no doubt that someday if gold and silver ever really went super crazy, like maybe $500+ per ounce of silver- this could happen in a true currency collapse type situation), they would come up with some sort of special "windfall tax" to get their share when people sold (instead of the normal tax rate that applies now to capital gains for PM sales).

Jim

Why would people sell their silver for FIAT if its not the price of silver going up but the value and spending power of the currency going down?

My guess is that when they sold the silver, they would immediately put their newly obtained "fiat" into something else right away. So unless the fiat value was dropping by the day, there should not be any real "loss" by converting from silver to fiat to something else.

My personal belief is that at some point in the future (when I don't know) the US dollar (and other fiats) will tank and the powers that be will come out with some new type of currency that will start out strong and be the place to go (maybe a "world" currency or some combined continent currencies like Canada, US, Mexico, etc?). That won't happen until PM's have reached their peak. Every asset goes through cycles. As much of a PM bug as I am, even I recognize that there are and have been times in the last 100 years when having all your $$$ in PMs was a terrible idea. However, now is NOT that time. But someday in the future, it will be time to move away from PM's into something else.

Just my opinion.

Jim

 

[SpacePete]

Guess what everyone... secret Treasury plan made the news overnight. Option 1 is a rise in GST to 15% with no exemptions:

THE GST CHOICES ON THE TABLE

Option A:

Increase GST from 10 per cent to 15 per cent with no exemptions which would broaden the base to include fresh food, health and education including private school fees

Option B:

Regarded by officials as a more likely option, was a 15 per cent GST that still exempts fresh food. This would increase the price of existing goods that already attract the GST, for example takeaway food, and other goods and services

Option C:

A 15 per cent GST that exempts food, health and education. This would deliver the status quo in terms of exemptions but increase the rate on existing goods that already attract the GST

Option D:

A 12.5 per cent GST. The smaller increase to the GST was regarded as an unlikely prospect by officials because it would fail to deliver enough revenue to provide for income tax cuts and cover the state's funding shortfalls in health and education

Link: http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...uts-on-the-table/story-fnii5s40-1227589451725

 

[Jim4silver]

Guess what everyone... secret Treasury plan made the news overnight. Option 1 is a rise in GST to 15% with no exemptions:

THE GST CHOICES ON THE TABLE

Option A:

Increase GST from 10 per cent to 15 per cent with no exemptions which would broaden the base to include fresh food, health and education including private school fees

Option B:

Regarded by officials as a more likely option, was a 15 per cent GST that still exempts fresh food. This would increase the price of existing goods that already attract the GST, for example takeaway food, and other goods and services

Option C:

A 15 per cent GST that exempts food, health and education. This would deliver the status quo in terms of exemptions but increase the rate on existing goods that already attract the GST

Option D:

A 12.5 per cent GST. The smaller increase to the GST was regarded as an unlikely prospect by officials because it would fail to deliver enough revenue to provide for income tax cuts and cover the state's funding shortfalls in health and education

Link: http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...uts-on-the-table/story-fnii5s40-1227589451725

I am just curious, is that GST thing in addition to property tax, income tax, sales tax, etc, or is the GST all there is?
Jim

 

[SpacePete]

Guess what everyone... secret Treasury plan made the news overnight. Option 1 is a rise in GST to 15% with no exemptions:


Link: http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...uts-on-the-table/story-fnii5s40-1227589451725

I am just curious, is that GST thing in addition to property tax, income tax, sales tax, etc, or is the GST all there is?

Jim

You missed stamp duty and various levies.

Yes, it is mostly in addition to all other taxes, duties and levies. "The Goods and Services Tax (GST) in Australia is a value added tax of 10% on most goods and services sales."

 

[Jim4silver]

Guess what everyone... secret Treasury plan made the news overnight. Option 1 is a rise in GST to 15% with no exemptions:


Link: http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...uts-on-the-table/story-fnii5s40-1227589451725

I am just curious, is that GST thing in addition to property tax, income tax, sales tax, etc, or is the GST all there is?

Jim

You missed stamp duty and various levies.

Yes, it is mostly in addition to all other taxes, duties and levies. "The Goods and Services Tax (GST) in Australia is a value added tax of 10% on most goods and services sales."

Wow that's harsh. I imagine in time it will come here. We have socialized medicine (obamacare) now so nothing surprises me here anymore. Hopefully "the Donald" will save us (I am only half kidding).

Jim

 

[SpacePete]

I am just curious, is that GST thing in addition to property tax, income tax, sales tax, etc, or is the GST all there is?

Jim

You missed stamp duty and various levies.

Yes, it is mostly in addition to all other taxes, duties and levies. "The Goods and Services Tax (GST) in Australia is a value added tax of 10% on most goods and services sales."

Wow that's harsh. I imagine in time it will come here. We have socialized medicine (obamacare) now so nothing surprises me here anymore. Hopefully "the Donald" will save us (I am only half kidding).

Jim

The US has a much broader taxation/industrial base than Australia so you are unlikely to see it as bad as we do here where money is increasing taken away from productive economic use in a death spiral of economic destruction. Taxes and regulatory policy are a boot on the throat of the Australian economy and it doesn't matter which government is in power.... It just keeps getting worse.

 

[SpacePete]

Back up the truck if 15% GST on silver is announced?

 

[sammysilver]

At a Tasmanian distillery today and learnt that excise on Australian Whisky is 80% a litre.

The Gov won't give a damn about GST on silver.

 

[Court Jester]

I am just curious, is that GST thing in addition to property tax, income tax, sales tax, etc, or is the GST all there is?

Jim

You missed stamp duty and various levies.

Yes, it is mostly in addition to all other taxes, duties and levies. "The Goods and Services Tax (GST) in Australia is a value added tax of 10% on most goods and services sales."

Wow that's harsh. I imagine in time it will come here. We have socialized medicine (obamacare) now so nothing surprises me here anymore. Hopefully "the Donald" will save us (I am only half kidding).

Jim

but stupid american strikes again

you have a state sales tax which is basically the exact same thing

 

[Jim4silver]

You missed stamp duty and various levies.

Yes, it is mostly in addition to all other taxes, duties and levies. "The Goods and Services Tax (GST) in Australia is a value added tax of 10% on most goods and services sales."

Wow that's harsh. I imagine in time it will come here. We have socialized medicine (obamacare) now so nothing surprises me here anymore. Hopefully "the Donald" will save us (I am only half kidding).

Jim

but stupid american strikes again

you have a state sales tax which is basically the exact same thing

Ah, isn't that splendid, an insult based on my country? I thought "foreigners" were supposed to be so much superior to us "stupid americans", but lookie who has to be a "meanie". Initially I didn't know what GST was. I guess I am a "stupid american" for that.

But actually, some states here DON'T HAVE ANY SALES TAX. Further, my state has a sales tax under 9% (which is still too high), but it's much lower on food and such. But we have NO SALES TAX ON PMs. I just bought some nice silver this week for just a little over spot- but no taxes. Sorry you can't do the same.

I would like to say some nasty things based on where you live, but I will not. I guess being a "subject" in your own land has probably taken its toll on you; that is insult for you on a daily basis I am guessing. Have a good day, "mate".


Just my opinion.

Jim

 

[smk762]

No GST on bullion as yet, but coins of gold less than pure do attract it. And socialised medicine works ok in Au, the problem with the US system is down to the structure of your healthcare industry, where pills are so expensive it's cheaper for people journey to Canada to fill a prescription and HMOs more often fail to meet the needs of the "covered" individuals, at least according to primary care physicians.

http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1105592

under managed care physicians are less able to avoid conflicts of interest and less able to place the best interests of patients first. The majority responded that quality of health care is compromised by limitations in location of diagnostic tests, length of hospital stay, and choice of specialists. A significant minority (27%-49%) noted a decrease in the physician's ability to carry out ethical obligations, to respect patient autonomy, and to respect confidentiality in physician-patient communication.

Not all yanks are stupid, but I'd venture to say many Aussies would prefer to avoid many of the facets of American culture which creep into our way of life, and aren't overly fond of our involvement in the wars you drag us into.

I understand your defensive retort to CJs trolling, but you'd be better off not taking the bait.

 

[willrocks]

How would 15% GST on bullion affect selling back to dealers?

 

[Jim4silver]

No GST on bullion as yet, but coins of gold less than pure do attract it. And socialised medicine works ok in Au, the problem with the US system is down to the structure of your healthcare industry, where pills are so expensive it's cheaper for people journey to Canada to fill a prescription and HMOs more often fail to meet the needs of the "covered" individuals, at least according to primary care physicians.

http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1105592

under managed care physicians are less able to avoid conflicts of interest and less able to place the best interests of patients first. The majority responded that quality of health care is compromised by limitations in location of diagnostic tests, length of hospital stay, and choice of specialists. A significant minority (27%-49%) noted a decrease in the physician's ability to carry out ethical obligations, to respect patient autonomy, and to respect confidentiality in physician-patient communication.

Not all yanks are stupid, but I'd venture to say many Aussies would prefer to avoid many of the facets of American culture which creep into our way of life, and aren't overly fond of our involvement in the wars you drag us into.

I understand your defensive retort to CJs trolling, but you'd be better off not taking the bait.

I don't agree with some things the US does in foreign involvement- especially those that involve the military (middle east policies, etc). Unfortunately, countries that have the most power (real or perceived) in the world tend to do things that don't seem fair to others (from less powerful nations) involved, why?, because they CAN. That is how the world has been for centuries and before that, although distances and such proved problematic before modern technology I would assume. If you took a real survey from those in the US, you would probably find only a small percentage that support the US screwing around all over the globe, especially when it comes to military and giving away our money. Too assume all Americans support this is asinine.

Perhaps the US learned some of its tactics from merry old England (where most of our founders came from). I am sure as an Australian you are aware of these things I speak of. Today perhaps the US does things akin to what England did a century or two ago- back then they called it "colonization". Think Canada, India, African nations, Australia, etc, etc. What do your locals (Aborigines) call it? Perhaps in 50 years China (or some other new "superpower") will be doing similar things and people can find a new bogeyman to hate (instead of the US)? There will never be a utopia here on earth. The same "game" will always be played by different players as the eons pass, and perhaps using different technology. If by some miracle Australia ever became a superpower, or even just a power, they probably would be doing the same thing(s) you all blame the US for doing. I am not saying that makes any of it "right", but that is just how the world is unfortunately. For all the "bad" things you blame on the US, there are more "good" things the US does as well. But those never get mentioned. If foreign enemies ever decided to invade Australia, who do you think would be there to save your ass(es)?

Too bad I can't come here to discuss coins and bullion without being insulted because some wan***(s) always seem to want to get political and hurl insults.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejorQVy3m8E

All just my opinion.

Jim

 

[Pirocco]

In order to align Australia's taxation system with the tax jurisdictions of equivalent nations, and to counter cross-jurisdiction taxation arbitrage, a range of measures will be introduced to increase and broaden the GST to ensure fare and equitable tax treatment for all Australians.

...* Henceforth, silver bullion products currently exempted from GST will be subject to a 10% tax, rising to 15% when the GST rate is increased.

The above is just my fear every time I hear politicians talking about increasing tax receipts through in increase or broadening to GST. The UK already has GST on silver, so you can bet it will be considered at some point.

The bold tagged indicates something to keep in mind: governments work together to prevent their victims from evading their theft.
Remember many (all?) governments made price agreements between companies illegal?
Well, just think about it, what is the difference with "aligning taxation"?
"Tax harmonisation" is precisely a price agreement.
Governments do themselves what they declare illegal.

 

[Porcello]

How would 15% GST on bullion affect selling back to dealers?

there shouldn't be any difference for end users selling back to dealers. If you are not considered a business (i.e. you sell less than a certain volume) you don't have to be GST registered.

 

[goldpelican]

It would be a huge cash flow hit for dealers - depending on what part of the quarter you're in, there could be hundreds of thousands of dollars in GST outlaid on recently bought inventory.

Unfortunately this is a business cost that needs to come from somewhere.

The status quo for GST on bullion creates opportunities for fraud from people looking to exploit the system, so if a GST review happens, you can bet that bullion won't be overlooked. My preference would be that bullion remains GST free, but this whole notion of being able to claim input credits based on sub-standard purity is what causes issues.

 

[SpacePete]

It would be a huge cash flow hit for dealers - depending on what part of the quarter you're in, there could be hundreds of thousands of dollars in GST outlaid on recently bought inventory.

Unfortunately this is a business cost that needs to come from somewhere.

The status quo for GST on bullion creates opportunities for fraud from people looking to exploit the system, so if a GST review happens, you can bet that bullion won't be overlooked. My preference would be that bullion remains GST free, but this whole notion of being able to claim input credits based on sub-standard purity is what causes issues.

I wonder if it would significantly alter demand from Australian buyers? Gold should remain GST free (surely?) so there could be a shift away from silver to gold, and holding an inventory of silver that is not turning over as fast as previously might result in even higher premiums added to offset the added cost.

Maybe we'll all become gold stackers assuming gold remains GST free.

 

[SpacePete]

How would 15% GST on bullion affect selling back to dealers?

there shouldn't be any difference for end users selling back to dealers. If you are not considered a business (i.e. you sell less than a certain volume) you don't have to be GST registered.

What about the buyback price though? If you purchased from a dealer and paid the 15% GST, that would be lost on resale back to a dealer.