$100 an ounce for silver sucker?

S

shawn120

Member
Let me preface this by saying I'm guilty of the following. Why spend $100 an ounce on silver (aka silver libertad 2 oz proof set by apmex) when you can get a lunar or panda gold 1/10th for less?! Again, I'm not trying to corner anyone here, it's a realization I had recently. Selling collectible silver is not easy since most of us only have ebay to rely on. Collectible silver takes up a TON of space in the ole' safe vs. gold of the same price. Gold is gold. Everyone knows it. No explanation needed on how silver is a consumable metal that has no mainstream replacement.

I love all the collectible silver stuff. But I'm running out of room in the safe and it really has no resale value in my experience. I'm anxious to hear any rebuttals.
 
Value is relative.

Everyone values things differently.

One could also ask why pay the high premiums on Panda 1/10th oz Au when you could save money and buy an 1 oz generic blob of gold.



Value is relative.




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shawn120 said:
Let me preface this by saying I'm guilty of the following. Why spend $100 an ounce on silver (aka silver libertad 2 oz proof set by apmex) when you can get a lunar or panda gold 1/10th for less?! Again, I'm not trying to corner anyone here, it's a realization I had recently. Selling collectible silver is not easy since most of us only have ebay to rely on. Collectible silver takes up a TON of space in the ole' safe vs. gold of the same price. Gold is gold. Everyone knows it. No explanation needed on how silver is a consumable metal that has no mainstream replacement.

I love all the collectible silver stuff. But I'm running out of room in the safe and it really has no resale value in my experience. I'm anxious to hear any rebuttals.
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I agree. collectable silver with the presentation boxes, packaging etc takes up alot of storage space. When you go to sell you have to be patient in order to get the amount you are after. Would get slaughtered if you were in a tight pinch for fiat fast relative to straight bullion for spot. Collectable silver pays off if you understand the market demand for the item I would think.
 
I believe bullion is for stacking. Numismatics, like a painting on the wall, are for your own enjoyment, not for reselling.
 
Personally, I couldn't justify buying a numismatic coin if I had no confidence in it appreciating in value - the Mongolian wildlife series is the only set of coins I have bought for myself.

If you know what you're doing, flipping numismatic coins is far more profitable than relying on spot to make you money. Having said that, can be an expensive game - particularly with modern numis when you miss the sell boat.
Some know what they're doing, some gamble on hype, others just buy what they think is pretty - income plays a part on your mindset when it comes to expensive silver I think.
 
It's a complete myth that one always gets a better return on bullion blobs than numismatic coins.

There are untold numbers of people who were buying blobs of silver when the spot was north or USD $36. If they needed to sell when silver was south of USD $18, the best they could get is spot or a loss of a minimum of 50% on their investment of money.

That's not to say that one can't also lose their shirt on certain numismatic coins but since numismatic coins aren't necessarily tied to spot, one could not lose nearly as much in the same time period or one could actually make a profit depending on the collector / numismatic coin and the purchase price.

Silver could be in consolidation for decades and that is always trouble for those who purchased blobs when the prices were higher than current prices and needed to sell.


Value is relative.




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mmissinglink said:
It's a complete myth that one always gets a better return on bullion blobs than numismatic coins.
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No mmissing..., it's a complete strawman for you to imply anyone is arguing that.

Your post sits directly below a statement that "If you know what you're doing, flipping numismatic coins is far more profitable than relying on spot to make you money." Most of us would agree with that statement. The caveat of course is 'if you know what you're doing', and many of us here don't have the interest someone like yourself has in this market. So we keep out of it.

Do you have anything new to say, or it is just going to be 'blobs are boring, shiny is nice, a thing is worth the price someone will pay, blobs are boring...' ad nauseam until I kill myself out of ennui?

There is room here for you to share some of your knowledge about numis - what is interesting you at the moment, what has performed well for you in recent years, where to sell for a good return, slabbing, etc, etc. That would be interesting and relevant to the thread.

So why rebut an argument that no-one has made in the thread, and one that I'm pretty sure you are (self)-satisfied you have debunked about a million times already?
 
HoldMeTender said:
mmissinglink said:
It's a complete myth that one always gets a better return on bullion blobs than numismatic coins.
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No mmissing..., it's a complete strawman for you to imply anyone is arguing that.

Your post sits directly below a statement that "If you know what you're doing, flipping numismatic coins is far more profitable than relying on spot to make you money." Most of us would agree with that statement. The caveat of course is 'if you know what you're doing', and many of us here don't have the interest someone like yourself has in this market. So we keep out of it.

Do you have anything new to say, or it is just going to be 'blobs are boring, shiny is nice, a thing is worth the price someone will pay, blobs are boring...' ad nauseam until I kill myself out of ennui?

There is room here for you to share some of your knowledge about numis - what is interesting you at the moment, what has performed well for you in recent years, where to sell for a good return, slabbing, etc, etc. That would be interesting and relevant to the thread.

So why rebut an argument that no-one has made in the thread, and one that I'm pretty sure you are (self)-satisfied you have debunked about a million times already?
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You are predictably wrong again. Do you try hard at being so wrong or does it come easy to you??


The reason my comments are entirely valid is because there's more than one comment in this thread which insinuates that blobs are a better investment....and as I've already explained, that's a complete nonsensical myth. You may hate facts but that's your deficit.


So stop continuing to be the truth-hating cry baby that you are and go troll somewhere else.



I have made profit on every numi coin I've sold. All numis I've sold are slabbed. Were I to sell my blobs during this same period, I would have lost significant value. Ergo, as I've correctly stated numerous times, blobs are not necessarily a better value than numis. It's a complete and utter myth that blobs are always a better way to invest one's money. Only a fool or a pump-and-dump charlatan believes otherwise.




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I have been fortunate to have a couple of sources of fairly cheap semi numis stuff from time to time, which has helped me make money if/when I needed to sell to raise cash. If I had to buy those items from the mint at full retail I would have lost when I sold. Similarly, if I would have had to sell my "bullion" during that time period I would have lost for sure since silver dropped pretty consistently from 2011 to Jan 2016. Those "stackin'" would have lost unless they got their stuff way below melt during that time.

I think the bottom line is silver has basically sucked since 2011, no matter what form you bought it in. I have most of my $$$ in silver (wish I didn't but too late) so I am not an anti silver troll, perhaps a bit anti silver nowadays maybe though..

Just my opinion.

Jim
 
As much as i love semi-numi silver, it is high stress. I graded several libertads and received 70's grades on a few of them. Of course when they spot, you lose a significant amount of the premium that was once there. So Bullion is nice as a backup semi-numi is nice if has traits that don't devalue it. They both have their pro's and cons. I sold off most of my pf70's but now i have 1 that has a spot and a few more pf69's. If those spot up too, i lose the premium so they are on the selling block. But due to a lack of space, lower prices and premiums, i'm favoring bullion at the moment. If i were to do semi numi's I'd go for the older stuff in silver and the modern stuff in gold 1/10-1/4 and try to manage the premium. Low premium silver is easy buying bars. Low premium gold is nice in bars or coins, along with platinum. Semi-numi i'm waiting for 3g pandas or 1/10 lunars. I don't mess with the other stuff too much now because they don't store well. I'd much rather just go for low premium silver. I keep getting kicked in the face by milk spots
 
Jim, I like the fact that you always come across as honest...that's refreshing to see in a forum where too many members for my tastes aren't.

The difference between having to sell collector coins and blobs when the spot price is lower than when one has purchased either product is that almost invariably one will lose money when selling the blobs (if they were purchased in normal retail channels under normal conditions) but one can make profit selling collector coins during a downturn in spot. It's a case of definitely losing money selling blobs vs possibly making profit selling certain collector coins. Of course, as I've stated many times in various threads, there are mitigating factors to the latter including having purchased the collector coins at an unreasonably high price (as well as other factors).


I shrug my head every time I see a dishonest charlatan or foolish person make the type of claims that I see far too often in stacker articles, videos, and forums....claims that silver will shoot to da moon tomorrow, that PM's are always a great investment, and one of the nuttiest claims of all, that blobs will always gain higher ROI than collector coins.





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It really depends. In an up market, the blobs will do better. In down markets numi's/semi numis tend to hold value better. In severe market corrections both will go down. Some numi's do better than others so it all depends. I agree though PM's as an investment are so/so. Spot takes forever to move anywhere significantly. So bullion is more of an accumulate and dump where numismatic carry well over time. Modern semi-numis/numis like the libertad proof as mentioned though is very high risk due to issues at the mint. Several purchasers have reported spots on the proofs which is what alerted me to check mine. So if you factor in spots in modern numi vs. bullion. Bullion can fare better in the limited time frame.

Given the current economic situation around the world accumulation during price depression doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. I still like the numis and have made some $ with them even in a down market. It just depends if you are an active seller and/or the coins work in your favor. If you are slow or unlucky, you could lose in the race to sell. So many factors, it is easier to understand why people like the easy thought of bullion. After doing this for a year, I can honestly say, i'm tired of milkspots killing my premiums on silver. Copper spots are ok because they can be removed and purchased on the cheap from lazy collectors. This is really just a see-saw battle.
 
mmissinglink said:
You are predictably wrong again. Do you try hard at being so wrong or does it come easy to you??


The reason my comments are entirely valid is because there's more than one comment in this thread which insinuates that blobs are a better investment....and as I've already explained, that's a complete nonsensical myth. You may hate facts but that's your deficit.


So stop continuing to be the truth-hating cry baby that you are and go troll somewhere else.



I have made profit on every numi coin I've sold. All numis I've sold are slabbed. Were I to sell my blobs during this same period, I would have lost significant value. Ergo, as I've correctly stated numerous times, blobs are not necessarily a better value than numis. It's a complete and utter myth that blobs are always a better way to invest one's money. Only a fool or a pump-and-dump charlatan believes otherwise.




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Bahahahah hoooo haahahaha ho ho hee hee (gasp)... ohhhh, my...

I'm a crybaby?

That is special!!!

- "Mummy, someone called me out on the internet"
- "There there precious, call him a crybaby, that will show him! Maybe try truth-hater too, that makes no sense so it might confuse 'em. I bet they hate freedom too. Remember, you are always right!"

Seriously mmythbuster (can I call you mmythbuster?), why would anyone bother trolling you? You are no sport at all: self-important, dogmatic, prone to miss the point and spit the dummy, obsessed with being right, quick to resort to abuse.. If I'm gonna troll someone I'd want a bit of a challenge. Try and crack someone who doesn't normally act like a tool . Maybe that know-it-all House. Yeah, get right under his skin and make him see red.

At least you edited in some content relevant to the thread. Well done on making money on numis, I respect that because it's not something I could do. But I never said it was impossible, or that bullion was a better investment, so you can stop telling me I have that wrong.

And grow up, dude. Sometimes people see things differently.
 
Silverpv said:
It really depends. In an up market, the blobs will do better. In down markets numi's/semi numis tend to hold value better.
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Just so you are aware, I did specify that my argument pertains to PM products purchased when the spot price is notably higher. There's no way under normal circumstances that one will sell blobs consistently at higher prices during periods where spot is significantly lower. If this wasn't the case, then all sellers and dealers would be selling blobs for more money today and for the past 3 years than they were during the summer of 2011.


Blobs of silver is a predictably very poor holder of value when you buy at spot plus normal premiums during periods when spot is notably higher than when you sell. That's not the same for collector coins. Yes, some collector coins will lose value, some will gain value and some will retain value. But since collector coins tend to move in varying degrees relative to spot, while blobs will definitely lose significant value during periods as already described, collector coins don't necessarily follow that same path....and if they do lose value, it may not be anywhere near the roughly 70% loss of value that silver blobs have been hit with from points at the end of April 2011 to the closing months of 2015 and opening months of 2016.


I'm not telling anyone what to buy or not to buy, I'm merely pointing out the facts on the ground.



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HoldMeTender,

It's time for you to go back to your padded cell and put away your colorful alphabet blocks....clearly your psychotropic medications are wearing off and you are confusing your own delusional ramblings for something else.

Be careful though, you don't want to hurt yourself anymore slipping on your crybaby tears.



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mmissinglink said:
HoldMeTender,

It's time for you to go back to your padded cell and put away your colorful alphabet blocks....clearly your psychotropic medications are wearing off and you are confusing your own delusional ramblings for something else.

Be careful though, you don't want to hurt yourself anymore slipping on your crybaby tears.



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That's gotta be the lamest, most irrelevant burn ever.

How is it you're funny when you're not trying to be funny... but not funny when you try?
 
mmissinglink said:
Silverpv said:
It really depends. In an up market, the blobs will do better. In down markets numi's/semi numis tend to hold value better.
Click to expand...

Just so you are aware, I did specify that my argument pertains to PM products purchased when the spot price is notably higher. There's no way under normal circumstances that one will sell blobs consistently at higher prices during periods where spot is significantly lower. If this wasn't the case, then all sellers and dealers would be selling blobs for more money today and for the past 3 years than they were during the summer of 2011.


Blobs of silver is a predictably very poor holder of value when you buy at spot plus normal premiums during periods when spot is notably higher than when you sell. That's not the same for collector coins. Yes, some collector coins will lose value, some will gain value and some will retain value. But since collector coins tend to move in varying degrees relative to spot, while blobs will definitely lose significant value during periods as already described, collector coins don't necessarily follow that same path....and if they do lose value, it may not be anywhere near the roughly 70% loss of value that silver blobs have been hit with from points at the end of April 2011 to the closing months of 2015 and opening months of 2016.


I'm not telling anyone what to buy or not to buy, I'm merely pointing out the facts on the ground.



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I hear you, i'm just sharing my experience in my limited time. I've made some(liberty medals, rare pandas, libertads), I've lost some (due to spots, or being too slow), or held (high grade morgans/pandas). I'm just clarifying the difference. As I mention, in an up market the numis don't perform as well as bullion. In down, 2011 to 2015, the numi's fared better. This is just my observation form my own experiences for the op. I've bought and sold quite a bit before coming to this conclusion.

I do want to mention a high premium coin like the libertad used in the example can lose 70% of its premium, because of spots and it can take from the time you order to the time you unbox it.. I really hate those spots! The premium is where the money is made or lost in collector coins. The base price or base + premium is in bullion. base + premium is limited in non-collectible bullion though. For the most part I agree with you. It's just the collectibles market is affected by the quality of the mint or storage. If all things were consistent and no other variables like spots, I would completely agree with you. Once they appear though, its quite f***ked..

I have those spots on pands, britannias, libertads, proofs, maples, and lunars. No modern premium silver is safe! Trust me, i was pretty heavy numi based but those damn spots.
 
Silverpv,

I don't disagree with you and you make good points.

I started off in my stacker journey buying mostly blobs a few years ago...when silver was hovering around USD $36 / oz. Not only do I have prima facie evidence on my side but I have first hand experience to inform me that blobs were a much worse investment of my money were I needing to sell my silver these days. Fortunately, I don't need to sell my silver at this time and I have sold some collector coins just to take a small profit but there are people less fortunate than me who needed to sell their stash at a time when the spot was notably lower than when they purchased and they got killed having to sell their blobs.

And that of course has been my point in this thread.....that blobs are not a good investment at all under certain circumstances but collector coins can be. I have not yet seen a bull market in PM's and I may not see one for decades. If this is the case, my blobs will continue to be a very poor investment would i find that I need to sell before the prices reach a minimum of USD $42 / oz. depending on how I dump my blobs.





Obviously there are people who hate me because I tell the unfettered truth and because I do not accept blatant falsehoods just because those falsehoods are commonly accepted by a certain group of people. That's their prerogative to hate fact-tellers but it will never stop me from calling people out on their bull.



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The next few years will be a great time to hold Gold and Silver.

Would you rather Housing, Stocks or Cash during turmoil?

Just need to not get greedy and cash out before all the other stackers.
 
Bastiat said:
The next few years will be a great time to hold Gold and Silver.

Would you rather Housing, Stocks or Cash during turmoil?

Just need to not get greedy and cash out before all the other stackers.
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cash... for bargain stocks...

but always smart to have a little gold in play.
 
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