So where are all the modern China medals finding homes?

Discussion in 'Modern Chinese Coins & Medallions' started by Gatito Bandito, Apr 21, 2015.

  1. andrewlee10

    andrewlee10 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I guess you must be panda coin collectors:) I am one of panda coin collector. Do it and done it. 12 oz and 5 oz are awaiting for me. Why I deduce that you are panda collector because Shenzhen snd Shanghai mints are the mints do it. Or you might be not panda collector too or you did not subscribe to peter Anthony pricepedia which did states this panda goat is minted by shenyang mints.

    Totally agree times will prove the appreciation of the products.

    China medal has produced since 1980 and earlier. Some are appreciated significantly but some are died and no value at all. This apply to coin too which is no exception.

    2014 china medal issues has reduced comparing to previous years which is stated by mandarin article. I do not understand that you are saying it is flooded recently.

    In additional china medal demand is always lower than china coin which is fact from few decades till now. Low mintages due to low demand and collector which is true since decades. Any logic or statistic to prove the recent medal is lower Mintage than precious years ?

    On top of collecting china medal and coins which I also collect perth mints , New Zealand mints and others western mints coins and silver round. Each had their own Beuty as my view.

    5 oz and 12 oz panda coins are good time to get in 2 years ago and even now. It had the peak which the price is super high and it is low now. It is type of cycle. It will be the same for medal.

    No way and no one can ensure a product can be star forever.

    I still believe buy whatever you like and love it within your financial ability. Do the homework before committing and buying.
     
  2. barsenault

    barsenault Well-Known Member

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    I agree there is a flood of medals from all types of mints looking to capitalize on this frenzy. And I agree that one needs to be careful. If you like something, buy early or perhaps wait 6-8 months to see if the hype dies down.

    I'm not a dealer. I'm not famous. I'm just like most everyone here...your 'average joe collector and stacker.' I'm a stacker of Perth Mint bullion, and a stacker of Chinese medals. I feel I have gained quite a learning curve over the last 2 years since meeting many folks from Asia. Am I a self-professed expert? Of course not. And JC and Andy are both right of course. No one can predict the future on any coin, medal, token, blob, govt issue, non-govt issue, etc... The bottom line? Go with what your instincts tell you, and then ALL OF US hope for the best in price appreciation.

    I'm with JC. I have many 5 and 12 oz Pandas. Have many HK medals, and Munich medals, and many other early year medals. I have several newer and more recent issues.

    In my humble opinion, the Lunar Panda Series 1 is the best set to collect. Please note, I say, my humble opinion. To be transparent, I do have one PF70 for sale on eBay. I have 4 PF 70's. This will be the only one I attempt to sell. If it doesn't sell after one more try, I take it off the market for good.

    I think if you...you = collector like Pandas and you like Lunar animals...this is a wonderful set to collect. Sure there are only 299 pieces...but this means nothing, if there aren't 299 people interested. I truly believe that if the monkey is a nice design then the goats will fly. If the monkey sucks, all bets are off. It is critical that the monkey is designed well. I hear it is designed by the same gal who did the goat. She did an outstanding job. I expect the same for the monkey. Heck, I'm hoping they come out with an antique silver and gold version of this series...low mintage of course. That would be sweet. Here's to hoping.

    The only disagreement I have with JC is, although he believes then panda goat is 'okay,' I believe the series will be a home run. And I look forward to series 2, 3, etc...
     
  3. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    Good points and I appreciate the perspective. I also read the same thing that the official mints will produce medals that are not officially authorized. I'm sure some other large mints from around the world do the same thing if they have a client willing to pay for the minting.


    For me, I don't care which mint produces the medal I buy....I am not buying medals to flip for profit. In my view, if someone is looking to buy round metallic things just to flip for profit, there are round metallic things that are better than medals that one should buy if that's the sole purpose (to flip for profit).

    I enjoy buying medals that I find aesthetically beautiful / great design. If, years down the road it gains a hefty premium, then fine...if not, then fine also.

    In fact, if I were interested in get rich quick schemes, I might stay away from silver and coins and medals altogether....if that's all I cared aboutjust making a quick profit.



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  4. barsenault

    barsenault Well-Known Member

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    ^^^for sure. I'm not looking for quick profit, but I am looking forward to them appreciating in value in 10, 20 years...when I may sell a few...and I hope I gain quite a return on the collection I'm storing up today. However, first criteria is always, do I love this art work? Does it fit my list of criteria? If so, I buy one of many pieces, hoping that the return will be there years down the road, and I'll make a profit.
     
  5. barsenault

    barsenault Well-Known Member

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    ^^^for sure. I'm not looking for quick profit, but I am looking forward to them appreciating in value in 10, 20 years...when I may sell a few...and I hope I gain quite a return on the collection I'm storing up today. However, first criteria is always, do I love this art work? Does it fit my list of criteria? If so, I buy one of many pieces, hoping that the return will be there years down the road, and I'll make a profit, but always try to keep a few for posterity!
     
  6. KeepOnTrying!

    KeepOnTrying! Member

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    Thanks JCmultipleluckynumbers! Write ups like yours are a very important part of the mix. They force us to think about why we are here and where we are going. I bought a few bullion coins several years ago for private reasons. Recently, I grew into MCC collection, for fun and to prevent some of my money from vaporizing into the air and into "ungrateful" pockets as it had done for years. Also, If I had to spend money, better spend it on coins and medals instead of unnecessary items such as food(!!!), beverage and changing cars ever so often etc. I am also tired of pooping away money!

    I only collect what I like but I am trying my best not to buy things that will lose me money. I am tired of being ripped off by "the system" and every other person that comes along. And that rip-off probably exists in the numismatic world where hustlers are likely to flourish short-term. I am not good at selling things. I always find reasons not to sell so I have no illusions about making a lot of money by selling medals or coins. But I buy two or more of any item that I am interested, either for backup or to allow me the possibility of selling some in future if I have to. There is nothing wrong with selling coins or medals. I have even bought some from members of this forum. And as I said I may sell some of mine in future.

    As many have lamented in this forum, it is at times difficult to resist some of the goodies that come to the market nowadays. I therefore look at ways to continue picking up items I like and at the same time keep on looking at how to make it a self-funding past-time.

    Making money is difficult. It's probably best done by going to school and getting a good job, and saving like hell. Working for yourself is harder but still doable especially if it involves leveraging what you studied in school. Just like in flipping houses and the myriad of "side" businesses people have tried to do, coin collection for making money is likely to lose you money. The only way to avoid losing your shirt is to adopt principles from other spheres of investment.

    For example buying what you like and what you know in relatively small and measured doses will avoid you burning through a lot of money. Planing the best way to protect your collections and pass it through several generations of your descendants can get their value magnified immensely. I know someone who inherited a large hoard of coins and medals through the grandparents and the father. That person is a happy person now and is also building up the collection further. That person hopes that the children will continue with that tradition.

    The jury is still out on the efficacy of specific investment coins and medals as you have highlighted. Given my experience in life I never believe I have a sure banker in terms of any coin or medal I am buying now. As humans we tend to be adventurous and the current preoccupation with the new mint products satisfies part of that urge. The new mint products are also being manipulated by some people and THAT IS A FACT. This does not preclude us from buying some of those things. I trying to hedge my bets by buying items with a lot of silver in them but I have also bought brass and copper based items.

    I also buy the older issue coins and medals. I scour eBay from time to time and pick-up those I can afford. There are a lot of highly priced items that I keep away from; unfortunately I was not around when they hit the market many years ago. That is probably why many gravitate towards the newer issues as they SEEM more affordable. But that is debatable because a 30 year old Silver Panda coin, for example, may have more stability and pedigree attached to it.

    I hope we can continue sharing our thoughts here in these and other matters. Thank you!
     
  7. jc888888888

    jc888888888 New Member Silver Stacker

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    I appreciate all the discussion. I just in general see an awful lot of these low mintage medals appearing and again I love and own a few , the ability of any dealer with a nice design and some money to produce lets just say a 2oz silver medal with plate cost, box, coa, etc for well under $100 pop it out on the market for $250/300 is a little worrisome that's all, but 5 years ago there where very few medal collectors and now :) many more! so time will tell.Andrews comments about 5 oz and 12 oz china mint yuan denominated coins is well founded and solid investment advise IMHO these coins are 1/2 price from 4 years ago, they will in my opinion have there day in the sun again these are a very limited item that are being overlooked by the MCC community. Also ,for what it is worth I love gold :) any one that wants to sell 1 oz gold panda,s at $100/200 over spot( depending upon date) graded by NGC I am a constant buyer and here is my dumb theory:) if you believe gold is cheap @ 1200 (I DO) and if you buy lets say ?? 1986 ms69 for 1325 what is your absolute risk today? 125 yes ? this is for a numismatic coin with thousands minted not 100,s of thousands or millions like bullion so you IN THEORY can get a double bang for your buck in appreciation just a thought. Oh and buy the way I am a collector first and a seller only to upgrade my collection I have never used one dollar out of the sale of any coin Ive ever sold for nothing other than to buy a upgrade coin :)
     
  8. andrewlee10

    andrewlee10 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Please approach me too if anyone want to sell 1 oz gold panda omp before 2008 at 100/200 over spot. I can offer higher if NGC grade. :D

    I am fishing gold panda
     
  9. mtforpar

    mtforpar Member

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    Isn't is somewhat the same principal for so called coins though.....Anyone can get round made and for a small fee have it become official currency (legal tender) of Tokelau, Cook Islands, Benin, Republic of Congo and so forth. This is one reason I don't think coin issues like the lunar skull (among others) will stand the test of time is they are part of a fad right now where many many many of these licensed issues are coming to market. With the medal market I have the same concern.....anyone with a few bucks can pump them out, pump them up, and then move on to the next project. I suppose as long as you are buying what you like it does not matter....but as an investment strategy I suspect official mint products and legal tender from major countries will stand the test of time.
     
  10. andrewlee10

    andrewlee10 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I totally agree with you. I prefer official mints than non official. However I also buy non official mints if I like it and within my financial ability
     
  11. barsenault

    barsenault Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, I too agree. I only stack Perth Mint coins (and Pandas) and over the last couple years have begun collecting Chinese medals. I try to be pretty particular about what I purchase, because they do appear to popping out in ever increasing measure from many private investors the world over. I only hope the ones I'm carefully selecting have great return potentional long-term. My goal is to buy several pieces at a good price, sell a few at a good price (profit), and this way my all in cost for what I keep is lowered or free...and upside is icing on the cake.
     
  12. Stark

    Stark Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Of course you are! At least on this forum. ;) :D

    I mainly buy only what I really like. Actually I was doing this basically since the beginning when I started collecting.
    In the beginning I believed that some coins or medals will appreciate a lot. Later on I realized that most of this was just "wishes" of sellers.
    Now I'm trying to make a list for the whole year to buy only few things from the lists.
    There are just too many (new) series that come out every month or so. It's easy to overspend money on some things.
    Especially quite often the first in the series can be really nice, but then somehow the next ones aren't so nice. There are few exceptions as always. One of them Tiffany art coins where I probably like all of them. Only question is how long the series will continue. 10 more coins, 20, 100? And the issuing price for them are usually quite high.
     
  13. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    Actually, what you are stating may not be true. If you look at official mint product prices of coins for example, many official coins lose value as soon as they are released. For example, for RCM products, all I have to do is wait several months or years after a coin is made available to sale by the RCM and I go on eBay and I can find the same exact coins for 20%-50% off. Not every RCM product ends up like this, but many do. Same with US Mint official coins...many are selling for less today than their original price.

    The point being, just because it's an official coin from any of the largest mints in the world doesn't amount to a hill of beans in terms of value appreciation. In my view, I don't think it actually matters much if the coin or medal is made by an official mint or it's authorized by a gov't....what is important is the supply and demand...period.

    Most of my coins are official popular coins from the US Mint and the Perth Mint and I can see based on sold prices on ebay, that I would lose money were I to sell them today. Also, there are charts online which show original selling prices and current value pricing for US Mint coins and sets from like the 1930's....many of these coins and sets have a value today less than what they originally sold for.

    Therefore, I don't buy the unproven claim that official is better than unofficial....there's no good evidence I have seen for those claims. I think we have to look at the product on an individual basis, official or unofficial, and make an evaluation based on supply and demand. Understanding what things will affect the supply and demand of a particular product is the tougher part I think. I have seen total garbage products sell like hot cakes at the same time I have seen high quality low mintage official coins draw a flat line or even devalue after initial release.




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  14. mtforpar

    mtforpar Member

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    I feel an official product has the best chance of standing the test of time.....With this I mean over long periods of time. One big advantage is that coins from major countries or in the case of medals official mint issued medals will always have a built in collector base. Whereas an Island country selling its legal tender rights or an unofficial mint may or may not be hot at the time to sell. Also, it is fair to point out that official mints are not immune to over-saturating the market for products and by no means is it a guarantor of success. So even in that arena discretion is advised. The official versus official is just one factor......so while I do believe it is a strong factor that I use to guide my purchase decisions it by no means assures success and should not be taken in isolation.

    One of the great things about investing in collectible coins and medallions is each individual gets to place their money where they feel it will benefit them the most. There is nothing but air and opportunity between you and the coins/medals you choose to purchase. It takes time to determine if said decisions were wise ones. As for me and my funds I will be investing in official products and wish those who choose a different path the best of success.
     
  15. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    I have already learned that official mint really means nothing in terms of appreciation of value....I have a bunch of gov't authorized major official mint produced coins to prove this theory of mine.

    I will stick to evaluating coins and medals based on factors other than officially authorized or not. And in the end, I will be happier knowing that what I'd purchased was a coin or a medal I appreciated owning. I really can't really say that about most of my official mint coins at this point.

    Good luck to those who buy just because it's produced by an official mint!



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  16. barsenault

    barsenault Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it is as clear cut as official vs non official. There are many factors that go into whether the said coin or medal appreciates in value. I think in the case of a medal there are many factors. Some thoughts are: art work, designer, history, mintage, series, quality of work, etc...my Hong Kong EXPO Medals 84, 85, 87, 88 as an example are fetching some amazing prices. What were these INITALLY priced at? I don't know, but I'd say pretty cheap. Their prices today are pretty lofty and people are buying. I guess time will be the ultimate test of what goes up in value, and what will come down. Ive put my money where my mouth is too, and it's turned out pretty well for so far...Chinese medals have been a worthwhile investment for me personally. Thanks for sharing your thoughts,
     
  17. jc888888888

    jc888888888 New Member Silver Stacker

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    Barsenault is absolutely right ! One has to understand about what I see as a difference, the medals he mentions ie: HK EXPO Medals 84, 85, 87, 88 these where almost for lack of a better term in some cases what I will call throw away medals in some instances:)a perfect example just came back from NGC:
    005 1988 CHINA PANDA HONG KONG EXPO 32mm BRASS PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO this brass medal was handed out at the show to folks for free most where thrown away only a handful exist people saw them as junk brass .IMHO it is probably worth 8,000 to 10000 it is rare because it is gone .Now lets take this as an example: also just back from NGC :
    001 (2014) CHINA THE GREAT WALL WORLD HERITAGE - 70mm SILVER MS 69
    002 (2015) CHINA MING & QING PALACE LION WORLD HERITAGE - 70mm SILVER MS 69
    003 (2015) CHINA MING & QING PALACE THRONE WORLD HERITAGE - 70mm SILVER MS 69
    these are BEAUTIFUL MEDALS :) BUT the total will always be there YES VERY LOW MINTAGE but the owners of these medals invested substantial $$$ and these will be looked after..
    So whats my point : Barsenault accurately points to a handful of medals that in the last 30 years have fell thru the cracks and are significant as they symbolize and represent a major long lasting coin expo
    NOW THESE HERITAGE MEDALS : which i love !! IMHO maybe worth more money who knows ?? BUT IF every few weeks a dealer in China starts cranking out a new 200 mintage series of some kind of series then NO WAY ,now we are talking 2 totally different things. FULL DISCLOSURE :I own a full set of the heritage medals (ungraded ) i graded this set for a friend.
    The point is Barsenault is an astute collector :) but to compare something like these heritage medals to this : EXPO Medals 84, 85, 87, 88 is like comparing Watermelons to grapes IMHO more disclosure :i own all the HK expo medals.................... just a topic of discussion and only my opinion
     
  18. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    ^ While I appreciate the insight jc8's, I don't think you are making a meaningful comparison at all. If one wants to make a meaningful comparison then one has to take medals of similar composition, from approximately the same year and the same initial price range, similar condition, with approximately the same mintage....then start to compare which mint produced it and the value trend for the past few years (unless it's a brand new medal in which it's more difficult to ascertain long term value). Because what you are doing is really not that different than stating that there's a big value difference between a perfect mint state circulating 1964 silver Kennedy half dollar and a 2014 proof BHOF collector dollar.

    If we begin the comparative analysis with such widely disparaging medals / coins as you have then it's like trying to compare raindrops with bulldozers. It doesn't make for a meaningful analysis in my view.


    I agree strongly with Barsenault where he states, "There are many factors that go into whether the said coin or medal appreciates in value. "

    As someone who owns a couple of official and un-official Chinese mint medals, I can tell you that there are many official and un-official medals that I would not buy even if I had the money. I am very picky in terms of which items I seek. I am no expert on Chinese medals by any stretch of the imagination but I still understand that there are probably a lot more un-official mint medals being produced than official mint medals. And by this measure or aspect alone, percentage wise, there's going to be more un-official medals that are going to appreciate in value compared to official mint medals....but that doesn't mean that all un-official medals will not appreciate and it also doesn't mean that all official mint medals will appreciate.

    I'm with those who buy specific Chinese medals (official or un-official) first and foremost because I sometimes like to buy things I like and can appreciate for many, many years regardless if the value goes a little up or a little down. If it just happens to go down, trust me, I won't commit suicide and if it goes up, then great...yippee! :)

    In the roughly half century that I have lived before I took precious metals and coins / medals seriously, I have wasted so much more money on other things (drinking alcohol, paying to see stupid movies just because friends wanted to go see them, buying too many expensive video games many of which I never got to play because of lack of time, gambling, eating out all the time, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc....what did any of that sorts of things really do other than give me bad hangovers and leave me with nothing to admire or nice to share with others) that I now have little to show for than I could ever lose if my recent Chinese medals purchases don't appreciate in value or lose value. So I won't be upset if it happens because in the end, with the medals I specifically buy, there's something tangible I will always be able to hold, admire, share the admiration with others, and pass down as gifts to the young one's in the extended family. I really don't mind my money going to buy medals if I can gain those things in exchange.




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  19. andrewlee10

    andrewlee10 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I did realize that you have a fair bit of rare gold panda for sell in eBay and forums.

    Can you disclose many of it sold if not sensitive ?

    Anyone of them break the price record of pricepedia ?

    Do you really subscript to pricepedia ?
     
  20. andrewlee10

    andrewlee10 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I like the way you are buying and collecting.

    Your thought is good and appreciated. This give me some insight for my collection and way of my living. Indeed I stop some lavish restaurant after collecting coins and medal.

    This month I spend 1/2 of my salary. I need cut down daily spending on unnecessary things.

    I feel this hobby is great learning process.
     

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