L80, "They do more harm than good. Employers that have had to deal with unions over the last 20 years are going to get their own back over the next 10." Agree, and it is not going to be pretty if the 1930s are any guide. Men worked for food and a pile of hay in the barn then, now a LAME will be hard pressed to find a job in the field ANYWHERE in Australia. OC
I joined the Australian Metal Workers Union years before GFC 1 because I wanted to protect my job security and pay rate..... Most of the 20 workers were in it and we only had meetings every 6months........I actually had a bullying incident with another worker and used the union to sort it out......So that payed off for me and made a few think twice before hanging shit on someone or demoralising them. As much as i was happy with my result i have seen instances where unions go way too far like shutting down entire biulding sites just because of something silly and minor........Shutdowns like that cost companies big money so its no wonder they dont like unions. I can see where Quantas is coming from because the demands will literally send them broke......So now the union and the workers will pay the ultimate price!
so it was ok for you to join a union and have them sort your issue out but it is not ok for others to do the same.
Well i think unions are great for job protection and rights but there is no doubt they go too far sometimes......Gees i heard some crazy story a while ago about a union demanding an 'onsite gym' or something absolutely rediculous like that..... I'd like to know what the Quantas workers are asking for?
Well just so you know i have applied for plenty of jobs last week and ther will be more this week.... Was in job agency yesterday and asked how bad things are at the moment......response was 'VERY BAD'.....Apparently thers alot of excellent skilled people looking for work...... Now thats jsut what i was told for my area/part of town in Sth eastern Melbourne. Employers take days just to get back to you because there seems to be so many applications being sent in?
Well, where to start. I am impressed by some comments here about the demands on QANTAS. You guys do not know the detail or have a clue on the history there. I left that airline from its heavy maintenance division in Sydney when part of that deal was to send some of the work to Avalon as they would use contract maintenance staff to make it cheaper, rest went to Brisbane and Offshore. That does not matter now as the aircraft they were set up to maintain are going the way of the do-do. From my memory in that place we always negotiated 3% pay rises through negotiated agreements, and we always gave productivity improvements to make it a cost neutral outcome.. In the 16 years I was there we (maintenance staff) NEVER went on strike. The reward for me was that I got made redundant with most of the others in heavy maintenance. Not upset, that is how it works. But stop with the horseshit of they were asking too much. it aint true. the market changed and that is how this rolls. If it was a car industry and not aircraft maintenance there would be handouts from governments . The car industry should roll with the market change too. The strikes and eventual grounding of the fleet was the fallout from years of the guys doing "the right thing" and reacting when the heavy maintenance guys got it in the neck anyway.. they figured it was time to stand up to the changes.If they were going to get slaughtered, the remainder carrying the load should get increases to reflect it. right or wrong , that is what it was. Mind you this was AFTER the heavy maintenance guys from Sydney had set up the Avalon base for QANTAS as it was only ever going to do "overflow work" not replace Sydney. then...well you know how it works. So now the Avalon base is surplus to requirements as new aircraft don't need maintenance (in Australia). and bye bye boys. I am just glad I changed industry, moved city for work and did not stay in that aircraft maintenance game. It is massive responsibility and very hard work. Pay in other areas is better with less responsibility. Don't even start me on the poor bastards who maintain the regional and general aviation fleet!!!. when we have a shortage of trained aircraft maintenance engineers and flight costs go up to pay massive salaries to try and get someone who has half a clue...don't cry to me, I will be dusting off my licence and gouging the crap out of you all in the name of free markets. supply and demand baby. Until then I will be in my current field of work (which has a skills shortage) until it does not. Change is the only constant , so learn to deal with change. PS stop blaming the unions. they are just trying to make a business profit like all the other guys who make a living off the little guys back. I have stopped making sense , so I will stop here.
Thanks for that info mate it really tells us all 'the truth' from an insider who's actually been there and done it... Would you say that business for Quantas has been dropping off (less people taking holidays etc) so they have had to make cuts etc to stay in business then.....Because this is how i originally saw it? It just seems like the Oz economy is slowly, slowly dyeing with each month that passes by? We all remember when Ansett went bust hey!
Sections of the economy are slowing, but sections are not. This to me is normal. The only thing that always rises is a bubble. Look at investment spend and employment growth in the hydrocarbon area. Oil refineries are closing on one side of the country and new massive gas field infrastructure spend and employment on the other side. Some want to prop up refineries like car makers. Others think its best to swim with the tide. In terms of Qantas, they own pornstar you know? (Jetstar sorry) . People fly, some just want cheap point to point, that pornstar market, others want branded service with frills, that is QANTAS. The split between numbers flying each is a reflection of market demand of product. Qantas have been making cuts from even before I started there in 1991. That is the reality of airlines and why fares are cheaper than the old days. That is how you get a lean operation. There is a price to pay when you get it wrong though. I will leave an sett for discussion face to face at the Perth stacker meeting.
OC, it would be my humble suggestion we do not confuse "the AWU" with the people who work for a living.
Gees how lean can they run? Jet fuel is like $2 ltr is'nt it and thers thousands of gallons in each wing. O.k so maybe there isnt an actual recession just some changes in business operation?
Had a corporate guest session in a 767 simulator at ANSETT years ago. Sat in the Flight Engineers seat. In the 'take off' the jet was using 2 litres per second at full power, and at cruise it was using a litre every 2 seconds. They claim that fuel economy is a lot better now than then, but I do not know the figures. Operating a big jet is EXPENSIVE. OC
Bloody hell that is crazy OC.....I dont get how they can do some flights so cheap sometimes? They also need to consider maintenance costs in the flight prices which would also be very expensive?
OT, I asked the man what would happen if a big jet had to turn hard to port etc to avoid the end of the runway. He 'landed' the plane and came in far too fast. The runway end came up and he turned onto the side. The left gear collapsed and the plane ripped off its left wing. the fuel tanks ruptured and exploded and it all came to a horrible end. You felt EVERY bump and force through your pants. NASTY! OC
still we are not in a recession ans unemployment is not that bad yet. You quit your job remember. Honestly I couldn't care less about your personal situation but you make it public by posting in here and them follow it up with some ridiclious posts for someone in your situation. I have been unemployed longish term before ( so I do understand it is annoying ) but when I finally got a job I managed to hold onto it for longer than 2 weeks. Maybe your many posts here are because of all the time on your hands maybe you should find something else productive to do( go and volunteer), besides worry about hypothetical situations that may never happen and even if they did there would be nothing you could do about it.
