Perth Mint mintage policy

Discussion in 'Silver' started by Ron Currie, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. fishball

    fishball New Member Silver Stacker

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    There's a risk in everything you do, from crossing the road to taking a piss but this is not what people are talking about.

    People are talking about the lack of transparency and lack of trust with the Perth Mint of which this little PR stunt probably didn't buy any back. You can be sure that Perth Mint did not tackle this 'issue' out of the kindness of their hearts but with the $ & reputation in their sights (not that I can blame them, they're a business after all).

    This situation is akin to buying a super rare luxury $10 million car only to suddenly have the manufacturer turn around and churn them out like Corollas and sell them on the market for $10,000.

    When you talk about fake pandas in this analogy it would be as if the Chinese made a ton of 'replica' cars but it would have a limited effect on your luxury car's price since all the car experts would know which one is legit and dealers wouldn't touch the fake cars with a 10ft pole.

    Furthermore there are fake Perth Mint coins out there so that point is moot.

    This is just speculation on your part. I could say exactly the same thing about Pandas and Silver in general and would be met with a [Citation needed] and rightly so.

    The quality is excellent? Once again this is an assumption on your part. Have you seen the 'toning dragon' threads or is your Perth Mint fanboyism blinding you?

    Not to say Pandas are excellent quality (white spots, recent years especially) but to say Perth Mint quality is excellent is pretty laughable.

    Also it's mintage, no plural. Montage is the act of making a film and has nothing to do with coins.
     
  2. goldpelican

    goldpelican Administrator Staff Member

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    Bloody apple autocorrect - the number of times mintage has been changed to montage and bullion changed to billion has been a bane of using the iPad.
     
  3. spannermonkey

    spannermonkey Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  4. Ronnie 666

    Ronnie 666 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    fishball you have it dead right. It's all about trust. The PM has lost our trust and for a bullion dealer that is fatal. If they don't understand or don't care I am not surprised. The attitude is clearly to ignore the problem, provide less than clear statements, and hope in a few weeks everyone will forget and start buying their products. As simple as it sounds it may work for some but we the long term customer are not going down that path again. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
     
  5. SILVERCOINSSHOW

    SILVERCOINSSHOW New Member

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  6. Holdfast

    Holdfast Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    For Ron Currie

    Ron, could you please provide a comment regarding un-limited coin mintages.

    Is it correct to say that the un-limited coins which include the Kookaburra and Lunar coins that Perth can and would re-mint older un-limited coins?

    For example, would Perth restrike older 2 oz Kookaburra or 2 oz Lunars?

    I understand that the mint-to-order coins are closed off at the end of 12 months but what about the un-limited mintages? :|


    Your mintage policy.

    For UNLIMITED MINTAGE coins:

    Coins of an UNLIMITED MINTAGE can continue to be manufactured whilst there is deemed to be interest in the product. The Perth Mint can cease manufacture and declare a final sales figure as the DECLARED MINTAGE after which no further coins can be manufactured.

    Some UNLIMITED MINTAGE coins may be sold on a MINT-TO-ORDER basis. This means that there is a specific time period during which the coin can be minted in unlimited quantities. Once that time period has expired, a mintage is declared, and no further coins may be minted.


    If Perth decide that the older un-limited coins will not be re-struck, could you please advise us if you intend to formally close and declare the un-limited coins in the same way as you are doing with the older limited mintages?
     
  7. Ron Currie

    Ron Currie New Member

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    For Holdfast

    Australian Kookaburra Silver Bullion Coin Series:

    No mintage limited applies to 1 kilo and 10oz coins, or 2oz coins struck up to 2009. As stated in the Mintage Policy, we are able to make more going forward. However, regarding the 2oz you mention in your example, it is extremely unlikely that we'll make any more of these coins. The cost of manufacture combined with falling demand meant they became unprofitable for the Mint hence their withdrawal three years ago.

    Australian Lunar Silver Bullion Coin Series II:

    No mintage limit applies to 1 kilo, 10oz, 5oz, 2oz and 1/2oz coins. However, our annual bullion brochure states that production of these coins (bar the kilo) will close at the end of year on the coin.

    For example, no more of this year's 10oz, 5oz, 2oz and 1/2oz Dragon coins will be made after 31 December 2012. (Production of the 1 kilo Dragon closes at the end of the Series.)

    Where it is required, we are in the process of updating our sales and mintage table with the Declared mintage for each of these releases.

    Under the new Mintage Policy, these coins are now defined as "UNLIMITED MINTAGE coins (which) may be sold on a MINT-TO-ORDER basis" and future promotional brochures will reflect this.
     
  8. Silverthorn

    Silverthorn Well-Known Member

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    So this applies only to future issues?
     
  9. Ghost Story

    Ghost Story Active Member

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    well that's about as clear as mud no re minting unlimited mintage unless we want too WTF does that mean ?

    getting all a bit to complicated for me might just give PM coins the flick i think :)
     
  10. Big A.D.

    Big A.D. Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    So why not just close the mintage, declare a final figure and guarantee that you won't make any more?

    You're basically saying "We reserve the right to assist big dealers in selling new coins at rare coin prices". Those releases are only unprofitable for you guys until a big dealer discovers one that is selling for a high premium on the secondary market and comes knocking on the Perth Mint's door with cash in hand.
     
  11. digoxin

    digoxin Member Silver Stacker

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    Is there a possibilty that Perth Mint might decide not to declare mintage on the future non 1 kg bullion Lunar coins ? For example if PM decide not to close mintage on the current Snake Lunars it could have authority to continue minting until the series ends. It could do this to have "a bob each way"

    Why assign a year to the coin if mintage can continue beyond that year?
     
  12. Silverthorn

    Silverthorn Well-Known Member

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    i was thinking the same thing but thought it was the pre-dinner drinks. :lol:
     
  13. Holdfast

    Holdfast Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Cheers Ron for the relpy.

    Sorry for asking dumb questions but I'm still a little confused. :(

    In your last paragraph - "Under the new Mintage Policy, these coins are now defined as "UNLIMITED MINTAGE coins (which) may be sold on a MINT-TO-ORDER basis" and future promotional brochures will reflect this."


    Are you refering to the Kooks and lunars or just the Kooks?

    When I read it, I read it to mean that future lunar coins (2014 onwards) will be un-limited and maybe sold on a mint to order basis.

    Sorry if I've caused confusion.

    To get this in my head, I'll just write what I think and then if possible you could correct me or not.


    Series two lunars.

    All of the unlimited lunar coins will cease production at the end of the year. For example the 2012 Dragon unlimited coins will cease being made on 31 December 2012. The 2013 Snake unlimited coins will cease on 31 December 2013. (The one kilo lunars are in their own class and Perth will mint any of the old or newer releases as they want until the series finishes in 2019)



    Kookaburra coins prior to 2009

    Those coins are unlimited and will not be re-minted.



    Kookaburra coins after 2009

    These coins are have an unlimted mintage, Perth can mint them To order. For example, if a wholesaler wanted a large order of 2011 - 10 oz or kilo Kooks Perth would consider minting these coins again.


    Cheers

    H
     
  14. 1for1

    1for1 Well-Known Member

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    Randomly 92 kook rolls became available at premiums over what other bullion products were sold for on sites such as BB and BM.. both for days (including these sites) were claiming they had got hold of complete rolls ... it wasnt until many forum posts and detective work that we all clicked the mint "opps" did it again!

    Its this type of clear as mud PM action that has collectors and investors reeling, this was such a FEEBLE lack of communication PM distributors were INCORRECTLY and embarrassingly selling selling newly reminted old rolls in new cases as old PM stock.. About one week later the price per roll dropped by around $100 per roll as it became widely known the PM was to embark on rushed and failed kookaburra restrike campagin (sorry but this is a textbook restrike - i can see no point of difference)

    Rinchin - i know news is slow to taumaranui Bro! (cuckold husband - YEP WE ARE ITS TRUE!)

    Most of us understand the postive (getting old rare issues at bullion price) but we are not as equallity naive on the negative effects

    If your in need of schooling on this subject i can rebump the old threads where all details were thrashed out!

    cheers all,

    1for1
     
  15. Ron Currie

    Ron Currie New Member

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    Hi Holdfast

    Series two lunars.
    All of the unlimited lunar coins will cease production at the end of the year. For example the 2012 Dragon unlimited coins will cease being made on 31 December 2012. The 2013 Snake unlimited coins will cease on 31 December 2013. (The one kilo lunars are in their own class and Perth will mint any of the old or newer releases as they want until the series finishes in 2019)

    Correct

    Kookaburra coins prior to 2009
    Those coins are unlimited and will not be re-minted.

    Incorrect

    Kookaburra coins after 2009
    These coins are have an unlimted mintage and Perth can mint The To order. For example, if a wholesaler wanted a large order of 2011 - 10 oz or kilo Kooks Perth would consider minting these coins again.

    Correct however, this applies to all previous unlimited Kookaburras.
     
  16. Holdfast

    Holdfast Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Thankyou Ron. :)

    I fully understand.

    Cheers

    H
     
  17. Silverthorn

    Silverthorn Well-Known Member

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    that's a relief. :cool:
     
  18. SilverSurfer77

    SilverSurfer77 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    So does this rule apply to koalas as well, or is the mintage closed at the end of each year like the lunar's???
     
  19. db23

    db23 Member

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    Ok, this makes those kooks worth about as much as a generic bar IMO. Whoever decided to re-write the rules on Perth Mint's business practices should be fired.
     
  20. Ronnie 666

    Ronnie 666 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I have read all these posts and read Ron's post several times and I remain "slightly" confused on kooks and koalas.
    Some will realise that a premium exists on old koalas.

    Ron please explain to our members with a yes or no after each line.

    2009 or earlier 1oz kooks - can be re-minted
    2009 or earlier non 1oz kooks - can be re- minted
    2010 and later 1oz kooks - can be re-minted
    2010 and later non-1oz kooks - can be re- minted

    2009 or earlier koalas (all sizes) - can be re-minted
    2010 and later koalas (all sizes) - can be re- minted

    Thank you
     

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