Discussion in 'Silver' started by Ron Currie, Nov 7, 2012.
Thats called marketing
Some people would say that's called making a false and misleading statement.
Numismatic premiums are derived from the coins' scarcity. How can they be scarce if the mint keeps making them for anyone who asks?
As we say in auditing, this doesn't pass the smell test. Why not just publish the annoucement on the web site? The most important question for me is were there any significant unfilled orders that are being cancelled or did the PM finish minting the orders and then announce this change of policy.?
Well, there you have it folks. I'm now officially done with Perth Mint coins, PM can suck it!!!
Isn't this what everyone wanted?
"2012 and earlier"
Haven't seen sizes of Kooks other than 1oz dated 2007 or earlier for wholesale - note that the pre-announcement includes 2012, of which there are still heaps of 10oz available at the mint (and probably kilos). So I think there's a heap of unjustified conclusions being jumped to here from simply misreading that announcement.
If 2012 is the only year that has sizes other than 1oz in wholesale stock, the announcement is still correct.
Yes GP we wanted the PM to stop reminting old coins. It seems they have listened to us after much heated discussion. I thanked Ron for his actions both on this forum and privately. The issue we now have is that this process was far further along the track than any of us knew, although we clearly suspected that there was an order in for these non 1oz kooks. What we don't know at this time is extent of the damage done to our Kook collection. It would be appropriate for the PM to publish right now what has happened and total coins reminted. No one is interested in 2012 10oz or 1kg coins. It is the older coins with limited sales that are important and right now we do not know what has been reminted. If they truly respect us as customers its time for complete transparency and some honesty. The mints reputation has been tarnished and its now time to fix what has been done. If these requests are ignored it will again raise suspicion that the number reminted were not "limited" as Ron puts it, but massive. We do need to know and the sooner the better
Mostly, what we wanted was a definitive anouncement, not an anouncement of a forthcoming announcement.
I Just received this note from Ron which does explain the entire situation.
Personally I am pleased that reminting has stopped and we all thank Ron to that end.
What we dont know is the reminting figures and we will all await that with some anticipation.
Thank you Ron.
This is the full letter received from Ron who has asked me to post it in its entirety.
We have already announced that all manufacturing has ceased and that we will declare the mintages as soon as possible. Unfortunately the conspiracy buff's think i am off to Berlin to sell swags of old coin, this is not the case. We do however need to keep our dealers in the loop and this is why a formal announcement, which is purely cosmetic, is required.
Silverstackers can make their own mind up on the figures, no matter what i say they will have their own opinion.
I would like to add personally that manufacturing of older Kookaburra coins has been policy at the mint for the last 20 years, This has now ceased due to SS fedback and again personally i am proud of this action despite what is said about us.
I can also confirm that this applies to all kookaburra coins including the 1 oz.,2 oz.10 oz. and kilo.
I am not sure i can do much more. If you are going to post this then please do so in its entirety
We want Perth to tell us what Silver bullion Kookaburra - 1kilo, 10 oz and 2 oz coins have been minted at the request of Perth Mint Distributors in excess of the coins contained in this graph and spread sheet below!
The sales information in the graph and spreadsheet have been obtained from Perth's Mintage pdf document last updated by Perth 13 April 2012
The reson we want to know is because Perth have re-minted additional OLDER coins which effects the number of coins in the mintage.
For example - Ten years ago, Perth provided sales figures for the 2002 silver bullion Kook coins which were:
1 kilo silver bullion Kook - 2,856 coins were sold.
10 oz silver bullion Kook - 2,438 coins were sold.
2 oz silver bullion Kook - 15,696 coins were sold.
Take another example - Sixteen years ago, Perth provided sales figures for the 1996 silver bullion Kook coins which were:
1 kilo silver bullion Kook - 8,961 coins were sold.
10 oz silver bullion Kook - 7,557 coins were sold.
2 oz silver bullion Kook - 78,424 coins were sold.
Pick any date you want, from 1992 to 2011, look at the mintage figures
Some of the coins hold very good premiums and of course, we now know that Perth may have re-struck some of the 1kilo, 10 oz and 2oz from the period 1992 - 2011.
We want to know what date coins, what sizes and how many they have been minted and how many are going to be distributed to Perth Mint Distributors!
We dodn't care about the 1 oz Kooks, we have guessed that they are sold to their maximum mintage because Perth Mint distributors have been flogging off the 1 oz Kooks for yonks now. :| We have been screwed by distributors and Perth, once, twice (Collector coins) 3 times Kookaburra silver 1 kilo, 10 oz and 2 oz coins!
It's about the kilo, 10 oz and 2 oz coins that Perth are re-striking!
what about older series 2 lunars in 2 , 5, 10 oz have any of these been re minted ?
No they haven't be re-minted and they won't be.
The 2 oz, 5 oz and 10 oz lunar series 2 coins - ALL of them will not be re-minted.
If you read the official Perth Mint "Precious Metals Program" brochure it clearly states the following:
No mintage limit applies to 1 kilo, 10oz, 5oz, 2oz and 1/2oz coins. Except
for the 1 kilo release, production of these coins will close at the end of
2013 and The Perth Mint will declare each coin's official mintage.
Production of 1 kilo coins will cease at the end of the series.
A maximum of 200 10 kilo coins will be produced on a mint-to-order
basis. However, production will close at the end of 2013, when the
coin's actual mintage will be declared.
The Perth Mint will produce up to 300,000 1oz coins. Production will
cease when the mintage is fully sold or at the end of the series,
whichever comes first.
So what does that mean?
It means that the 2 oz, 5 oz and 10 oz coins have an unlimited mintage, Perth can mint as many as they like but basically for one year.
Use the 2012 Dragon for example.
They were released on 01 September 2011; Perth have minted as many 1/2 oz, 2 oz, 5 oz and 10 oz coins production will close on 31 December 2012.
After that, those lunars will never be minted again because production is closed and Perth declare the image sometime in 2013 once they have done the books.
Whe a declaration is made, in means just that; the coins are DECLARED and no more will be minted.
So the Lunars are a good coin to buy because although they have an unlimited mintage for just over 12 months, atleast we know Perth will not re-strike them.
ust remember about the kilo coins though. Perth have something up their sleeve for the kilo and we won't know until how many kilo coins are declared until 2019.
All of the written brochures and web brochures provided by Perth indicate the mintage policy being exactly the same, so you have Perth's written word the mintages are declared.
I hope the above helps you.
If you read this post, do you see how confused and un-trusting people are now toward Perth because of your mintage policy!
How about providing a brochure and clear policy, that everyone can understand, instead of us having to re-think time and time again what Perth means.
Have the same dang mintage policy for all coins!
Here's what to do.
Mintage policy for all Bullion coins released by Perth.
All Gold and silver bullion coins will be released for 12 months no exceptions for wholesale or retail orders.
Buy or miss out!
Nowhere near it. Some still have total mintages around 100,000.
Which ones would they be?
I didn't know you were privy to Perth's official sales.
Care to share some information Gold Pelican on the years?
How about the lunar series 2 proof coins ? does anyone know if they are finished with minting the previous years on these?
Maybe a direct question for the mint.
Taking my Silver Stackers admin hat off for a moment and putting my Gold Stackers distributor hat on.
1998, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006 1oz Kookaburras were all under 100k "latest" mintage last I checked, however that information could now be out of date. As a distributor we receive updates on the current 1oz wholesale stock availability - information beyond that I'm not authorised to disclose as it is commercial in confidence, and I certainly won't be publishing any specific figures I receive in a distributor capacity on a public forum (or responding to any PMs requesting the information).
I can safely say though that as a distributor I have never been offered previous year Kookaburras in sizes other than 1oz, or heard of it, but that's just my exposure to information on the subject.
Just from looking at the figures I do have, sales of reminted coins in 1oz Kookaburras in the last 12 months are almost all a single digit percentage of the overall number minted. So for most of the Kookaburras, original year strikes comprise anything from 87% to 99% of the total mintage to date.
Restrikes are far rarer than original strikes.
Declared mintages for Australian Kookaburra Silver Bullion Coins 1990 2012 http://www.perthmint.com.au//docume...lion_Coin_Series_1990_-_2012_061212_FINAL.pdf
So has the reminting of older kooks stopped indefinately or just the time being?
Please stop scaremongering. This is incorrect. Only the 1kg lunar coins can be reminted. The other lunar sizes you listed cannot. If you bothered to read the Perth Mint's bullion brochure you would know this.
I've been waiting for this kook mintage to be publicized...but I think collectors still need a good year to somehow forget about the whole thing and invest in kooks again... and also dealers need to be sold out from kooks
Separate names with a comma.