Perth Bullion Liquidation

Discussion in 'General Precious Metals Discussion' started by nighttrader, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. Pendragon

    Pendragon Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2011
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Australia
    innerpath likes this.
  2. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Messages:
    3,477
    Likes Received:
    525
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    North Sydney
    If you have paid for any item by credit card, ring them and do a chargeback.

    Unlike popular belief CHARGEBACK is not automatic reversal, and each card FSP have different time limit rang8ng from 30 days to 120 days.

    Also DON’T FORGET your credit card especially the premium ones will have you insured, ask about that too.
     
  3. josh_676

    josh_676 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Great point - Credit Cards when used correctly you are risking other peoples money if stuff like this goes wrong.
     
  4. Bullion Now

    Bullion Now Active Member Commercial Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    203
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Level 6, 227 Collins St Melbourne
    Ok - we all need to calm down a little.

    If you have made a contractual purchase (ie you have a receipt that you purchased certain items on a certain date and paid for them and then stored them there) then you are the owner of said items and not the company therefore no liquidator has a claim to them. It doesn't matter if these items are stored in a locked box or left lying on a shelf somewhere collecting dust. If you can prove ownership then they are yours.

    It should also be noted that the liquidator has at no point said that they will not honour any debts, unfilled purchases or anything else and have actually said "We understand the concern people will have at this time in such circumstances. I seek your understanding and patience whilst we undertake this necessary work to protect the interests of all parties. The circumstances that I have currently identified include: 1. Safety deposit box holders; 2. Online purchases (paid, partially paid) with uncollected goods; 3. Allocated storage; 4. Unallocated storage; 5. Buybacks; and 6. Monies received post appointment. To assist with our assessments and your claims, I invite you to provide the following at your earliest convenience:  Invoice/s;  Order number/s;  Receipt of payment/s; and  Contracts or agreements." Bold type highlighted by me.

    The problem with circumstances like this is people start to panic, assume the worst and make unfounded comments with very little knowledge. This is not a dig at anyone. Just a request for calm and patience to allow the liquidators and the system to do what it is legally obliged to do - look after the interests of all parties concerned including the little guys.

    And for the "if you don't hold it you don't own it" brigade (whom I might add - I include myself in to a large degree) think on this for a moment: One bullion dealer has gone into liquidation in the last few years and at this stage there is no evidence of anyone losing anything. According to Budget Direct (who take the stats from the ABS) there is a burglary in Australia every 3 minutes and the offender/s confronted someone in 1 in 10 households that were broken into. Are you, your family and your stash safer at home?

    Michael
    Bullion Now
    (Yes - I'm a bullion dealer with an unallocated and allocated program. I'm quite happy to admit to a bias. Doesn't mean I'm necessarily wrong).

    Reference: https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/home-contents-insurance/research/home-burglary-statistics.html
     
  5. magpie1972

    magpie1972 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2016
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Adelaide
    looks like your;'e spot on about the first point -below copied from their web-page... looks like their safety deposit boxes are ok for those who have them. Allocated storage looks fairly sound, not so sure about Unallocated? Cheers

    Store with us
    With our state of the art vault and security systems you can keep your mind at ease when you store with us. We offer three levels of service depending on your requirements:

    1. 1. Safety deposit box facilities are fully controlled by you - as the sole holder of the key to your box, which is located within our secure vaults, no-one has access but you.
    2. 2. Allocated storage allows you full title to your own bullion products secured within our vaults. You will be issued with serial numbers for products held by us - which can be delivered worldwide or sold back to us at any time.
    3. 3. Unallocated storage is the lowest cost method for buying gold and silver bullion. Each holder of unallocated products owns a share of large silver or gold bars held by Perth Bullion Company. This product is not deliverable, but can be sold back to us, or credited to any of our other products, at current market spot rates
     
  6. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Messages:
    3,477
    Likes Received:
    525
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    North Sydney

    You are wrong, on large range of facts, people who bought from Dick Smith and Toys RUs and paid in full but if items was not delivered at liquidation than they were shafted in FULL

    On the panic side if I was invested in unallocated significantly I would be worried. I’ll likely add allocated people as well if they haven’t been contacted directly by the liquidators.

    By law if one has security over assets, like you say allocated is, than the liquidators have to contact you within ten working days. If no contact is made than one is either secured or unsecured creditors.

    https://www.choice.com.au/shopping/...ng-guides/what-to-do-when-a-company-collapses
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  7. Bullion Now

    Bullion Now Active Member Commercial Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    203
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Level 6, 227 Collins St Melbourne
    You're kind of proving my point here. People are making rash statements with no basis of fact. At this stage NO ONE has actually any evidence of losing anything. No one has been told (that I am aware of and maybe someone will correct me) that they have lost money or product. Everyone has been asked to submit evidence of ownership or credit so that they can get their stuff back. No one has been "shafted in full". Maybe they will but we don't know yet.

    This is not to minimise the stress that some people will be feeling but making rash, unfounded statements doesn't help them.

    In regards to your examples:

    - Dick Smith insolvency - creditors lost out. However you need to define creditor in this case - supplier, shop owner (ie Westfield), ATO, Gift card holder, customer. People who purchased an item during the period of insolvency have a full claim against directors personally so they should have got back any item or compensation (which seems to be what we are talking about here). Other creditors (suppliers, ATO etc) have to fight over the remaining assets. If someone made a purchase and left the item at the store then the liquidators have no legal claim to the item and therefore the holders would have got the item back (assuming they can prove ownership). Gift card holders unfortunately would have lost out in full.

    - Toys R Us liquidation/bankruptcy in Australia has not finished yet so people don't know yet if they will or won't get their purchases but again it will follow common law.

    It all comes back to Do Your Own Research, keep your paperwork up to speed and if problems occur - go with fact not emotion.

    Michael
     
  8. Bullion Now

    Bullion Now Active Member Commercial Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    203
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Level 6, 227 Collins St Melbourne
    Ipv6Ready - I can't keep up with you changing and editing your post. Let me know when you've finished and I'll try and make comment but each time I go back you've changed and added more lines.
     
  9. Bullion Now

    Bullion Now Active Member Commercial Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    203
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Level 6, 227 Collins St Melbourne
    OK - it's been over an hour since you edited so I'm assuming you're finished. Just for the record, both times I've quoted you here I have quoted you in full. I haven't changed or cut and pasted anything and I haven't edited. I'd appreciated it if you'd do the same so people can see how the discussion progresses and things aren't taken out of context or words changed to project a different meaning to how they were intended with the initial comment.

    Other than stating I'm "wrong, on a large range of facts" you haven't actually specified what these facts are so it's a bit hard to comment or defend.

    I wasn't personally effected by Dick Smith or Toys R Us and don't know anyone who was nor am I aware of the intricate details. I assume there were people who lost out (and the media confirms this) however to draw a line between a generic "creditor" at Dick Smith and a person who has ordered something from Perth Bullion is disingenuous. There are many types of creditors - landlords, suppliers, government agencies, banks, financiers, wholesalers, providers to highlight just a few. I can find no reports on how people who paid in full and hadn't take delivery of said items were treated so again - to say they were "shafted in FULL" is, as far as I can tell unsubstantiated.

    As for PB allocated and unallocated products - not having intimate details of how the PB allocated and unallocated systems worked I can't really comment.

    I'm not aware of a time requirement that liquidators must contact owners of particular items by. I would be interested to see where this is stated as I can imagine it being an almost impossible job to do for large liquidations like Dick Smith or Toys R Us to do within 10 days. Can you give a reference?

    My initial post that you quoted was merely a call for calmness to allow time for the dust to settle and everyone to find out their requirements, responsibilities and what would happen rather than stating anything or anyone had been shafted or not. Let's let the facts, law and people work. It is a stressful enough situation for all concerned without people muddying the waters with unsubstantiated rumours and emotions.

    Michael
     
    Bullion_ron likes this.
  10. Oddjob

    Oddjob Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2018
    Messages:
    1,738
    Likes Received:
    1,437
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Oz
    Given some members of SS have been affected by the demise of Perth Bullion and questions raised around the time of the courts appointment of the Liquidator verses when it became widely known, ASIC do provide an “email alert” function for use by the general public to obtain email advice's from ASIC whenever am Australian company with an ACN/ ABN lodges a notice with ASIC. Refer following link:

    https://www.edge.asic.gov.au/misccgi/alert.html

    It's easy to use (your email address and the ACN of the company to receive alerts on) and may provide SS members with some additional level of information on those companies they deal with in both a private and professional manner. Whilst I cannot guarantee the speed at which notices are uploaded into ASIC's database, it may provide information SS members find useful in the future. I also note that you will receive email notices for all ASIC lodgements for that ACN, thus if you followed say a major Aust bank, you'd see multiple email alerts each day as opposed to a smaller company where ASIC document lodgement may not be that regular.
     
    66rounds likes this.
  11. SilverPOD

    SilverPOD Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    WA
    I'm in the same ship, i had bought all of them from Perth Bullion up till now. Looks like a trip to Singapore for me to get the rest.

    :(
     
    Grimey likes this.
  12. Karoi

    Karoi New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Perth
    Well this is a bit depressing.....especially for those of us in Perth :(
     
  13. iceblue

    iceblue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,978
    Likes Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    South Gippsland
    If you didnt see this coming (especially older members) then you are blind. Being a customer - understand where your details have gone. Bullion dealers - keep your house tidy. Bullion Industry - one set of rules cannot apply to half the industry and not the other. I have tried to warn you, very few have taken my warning seriously, consider this the last one - no matter how big you are, even if you have just passed an audit.
     
  14. Captain Kookaburra

    Captain Kookaburra Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    4,932
    Likes Received:
    272
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Members listen up. Ice speaks from experience. As do I.
     
    robertc400, dollars and iceblue like this.
  15. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,449
    Likes Received:
    540
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Australia
    It's interesting to note that Ainslie Bullion now charge GST on their $200 Koala coins. This is a fairly recent change in the last few months and they never used to charge GST (and said so in the description which is now changed to remove the GST comment) even though other dealers like GoldStackers were charging GST on them.
    I wonder if they will eventually get caught up in the same GST problem that caused the demise of Perth Bullion?

    https://www.ainsliebullion.com.au/p...adf7-838e-48b5-8995-5d952903a18c/default.aspx

    And I have to wonder how far back in time the ATO went and asked for back-GST ?
     
  16. Captain Kookaburra

    Captain Kookaburra Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    4,932
    Likes Received:
    272
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Melbourne
    No .... They are just being prudent.
     
  17. iceblue

    iceblue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,978
    Likes Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    South Gippsland
    @SilverDJ Would have gone back at least 3 years but they can go further not sure what the limit is. Back GST is only one liability, you then get a fine for each breach of the act, then you have to pay interest as well.
     
    66rounds likes this.
  18. President Trump

    President Trump Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2019
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    63
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Can someone just confirm the rule for me please. Is it that .999 is GST free and less than .999 attracts GST?
     
  19. ozcopper

    ozcopper Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,898
    Likes Received:
    1,707
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Australia
    Yes and no, Only if it's bullion. a 999 proof or collectors coin attracts GST.
     
    Bullion_ron and 66rounds like this.
  20. President Trump

    President Trump Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2019
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    63
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Thank you for your reply but I still don't understand sorry.
     

Share This Page