Perth Bullion Liquidation

Discussion in 'General Precious Metals Discussion' started by nighttrader, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. iceblue

    iceblue Well-Known Member

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    If you didnt see this coming (especially older members) then you are blind. Being a customer - understand where your details have gone. Bullion dealers - keep your house tidy. Bullion Industry - one set of rules cannot apply to half the industry and not the other. I have tried to warn you, very few have taken my warning seriously, consider this the last one - no matter how big you are, even if you have just passed an audit.
     
  2. Captain Kookaburra

    Captain Kookaburra Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Members listen up. Ice speaks from experience. As do I.
     
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  3. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

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    It's interesting to note that Ainslie Bullion now charge GST on their $200 Koala coins. This is a fairly recent change in the last few months and they never used to charge GST (and said so in the description which is now changed to remove the GST comment) even though other dealers like GoldStackers were charging GST on them.
    I wonder if they will eventually get caught up in the same GST problem that caused the demise of Perth Bullion?

    https://www.ainsliebullion.com.au/p...adf7-838e-48b5-8995-5d952903a18c/default.aspx

    And I have to wonder how far back in time the ATO went and asked for back-GST ?
     
  4. Captain Kookaburra

    Captain Kookaburra Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    No .... They are just being prudent.
     
  5. iceblue

    iceblue Well-Known Member

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    @SilverDJ Would have gone back at least 3 years but they can go further not sure what the limit is. Back GST is only one liability, you then get a fine for each breach of the act, then you have to pay interest as well.
     
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  6. President Trump

    President Trump Member Silver Stacker

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    Can someone just confirm the rule for me please. Is it that .999 is GST free and less than .999 attracts GST?
     
  7. ozcopper

    ozcopper Administrator Staff Member

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    Yes and no, Only if it's bullion. a 999 proof or collectors coin attracts GST.
     
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  8. President Trump

    President Trump Member Silver Stacker

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    Thank you for your reply but I still don't understand sorry.
     
  9. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    If its limited edition it becomes a collectors item. If its a generic item like a gold bar or silver round its GST free.
     
  10. Grimey

    Grimey Member

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    Also agree, unfortunately dont think KJC sell them( unless added recently). Being in Sydney Ifound it more often a lot cheaper not only buying QB's but other coins/bars from Perth bullion including their postage. Up to now not aware of any other dealer in Australia that hold them.

    There range was massive and they were one of few to stock a lot of other products from various mints at a reasonable price with no ridiculous premium like a lot of other dealers.

    I know there is this forum but for someone that visits acouple of times a week anything that's a half decent deal seems to be swooped up pretty quickly.
     
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  11. Grimey

    Grimey Member

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    Sorry was meant to attach this to my post
     
  12. President Trump

    President Trump Member Silver Stacker

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    To the more experienced a question; how is this playing out with coin values?

    Are collectable coins like $200 Commonwealth Games and $200 Koala being bought for less to compensate for 10% GST. I'm assuming that if there are 2 coins that are only worth spot and one attracts GST on sale the one that attracts GST is less desirable and therefore worth than spot.
     
  13. Captain Kookaburra

    Captain Kookaburra Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The problem is that the ATO don't understand it. Different people in the ATO have different interpretations. So don't feel bad that it confuses everyone.

    Have a read of their paper GSTR 2003/10 to see how confusing it is.

    The customs agents that bullion companies use are very stringent in their application, and they okayed pretty much everything that didn't come from the Perth Mint. And stuff from the Perth Mint ..... Well if the Perth Mint doesn't charge GST in its retail shop then it must not be GST liable. After all it is my understanding that the Perth Mint were consulted when the legislation was drafted.

    It is fair and reasonable to follow the lead of a government owned entity that has the resources to hire lawyers to appropriately consider and interpret (badly written) legislation. You can't expect the same from a small business of less than 10 employees.

    In this case the ATO have targeted a very small group of smaller dealers. Kinda like a test case to see if they can get away with it. PB as well as SGB just happened to be the companies that one particular auditor was assigned.

    It must be said that applying the most stringent interpretation, I can't see what PB have done wrong. As Iceblue says, its unfair to interpret things one way for a few companies (and put them out of business) and not for others.

    This is what has happened here.
     
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  14. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    These are not bullion (24k, 999+) and attract GST (refer to prices at ainslie and goldstackers). Hence they have higher premiums at dealers and like you said are not desirable for those looking to buy as close to spot as possible.
     
  15. gotlucky

    gotlucky New Member

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    Being a tight-arse not wanting to pay P&P etc I was a customer of 'The Rare coin co' Perth - went bust, then Perth Bullion - went bust. Have to see if I can "break" the Perth Mint. :(
     
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  16. President Trump

    President Trump Member Silver Stacker

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    It's a disgrace, they have the power to issue a ruling and avoid the confusion. Peoples lives are affected and there are huge knock on effects. This type of thing is like a cancer ripping through an industry.
     
  17. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

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    But up until the last few months Ainslie had been selling $200 coins GST free, with the note on their page reading "Because they are still currency they do not attract GST despite not being 9999 pure."
    As far as I know Ainslie were the only ones not charging GST on these, but have changed their tune now. Goldstackers have always charged GST on them.

    From the web archive March 4th (they never used to have the (INCL GST) in the title before this.

    upload_2019-7-15_20-54-59.png
     
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  18. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I did not know this. Seems they are covering their ass due to the overlap of "limited release, non - bullion" with "legal tender" allowing the ATO to claim GST. Definitely needs clarification, although I daresay most dealers will now charge GST to reduce the risk of headache.

    I have stuck to 24k .999+ bullion since i became involved in PM due to lower premiums and I presume many more people will now look towards high purity products to avoid this hassle.
     
  19. nickybaby

    nickybaby Member Silver Stacker

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    the next grey area will be when does bullion become collectable?

    Try buying a season 2 lunar gold mouse 2 oz for spot.
     
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  20. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    a company is given licence to collect GST for the govt as an agent, its in their job description
    they get terminated when failing in their job
     

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