Perth Bullion Liquidation

Discussion in 'General Precious Metals Discussion' started by nighttrader, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. bron.suchecki

    bron.suchecki Well-Known Member

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    Question: if you have a safety deposit box or allocated, if you say you want to be noted as a creditor can that be taken as you agreeing that you are part of the creditor pool and do not have valid ownership of the metal. For example, if the business was leasing a car, or renting a building, would the car leasing company who clearly owns the car, or the landlord, ask a liquidator to be noted as a creditor?

    I certainly think anyone should submit documents proving that they have paid for and own any metal stored, but should they ask to be noted as a creditor if the liquidator hasn't acknowledged their ownership ASAP - they may just be overloaded?
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
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  2. President Trump

    President Trump Member Silver Stacker

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    That is a good point. If you have a safety deposit box or allocated gold it's not a good idea to say you are a secured creditor in respect of this. But I wouldn't worry if you have already said this, the liquidator will know what you mean. You can't accidently convert yourself into a Creditor if, in law, you are something else. The relationship between the liquidator and those with safety deposits and allocated gold is still contractual. The insolvency process in Australia does not result in the automatic termination of contracts. The contract in place with respect to the safety deposit box will be important, because most well drafted contracts, contain provisions as to what happens if an insolvency event occurs. I have never read one of these contracts specifically, but I would expect it to say that upon an insolvency event the contract terminates and the subject matter is returned to its owner. I don't understand the exact contractural arrangement for allocated gold, but this will also be determined by the contracts, and in particular, whether ownership of the gold was effectively transferred at the outset of the arrangement. Hopefully the allocation contracts can't be construed as some form of credit or security arrangement. I would be interested to see them if anyone has them.
     
  3. harry_mr

    harry_mr Active Member

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    Today I doubt many businesses enjoy the consistent luxury of 30% and it depends on volume of sales but I do agree its a starting point. Unfortunately we have an over supply of nearly everything manufactured and there is always someone willing to do it cheaper.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
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  4. sellmeyourbullion

    sellmeyourbullion Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Not very happy, Perth Bullion was my number one dealer. It will be very interesting to see how all of this will play out. And would be nice to know the exact reason why they went under.
     
  5. Dynoman

    Dynoman Active Member

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    Thanks, I copied the details of my last purchase and sent them through to RSM. Interestingly, a friend got through to Perth Bullion yesterday by phone & they told him that they're processing undelivered orders & basically not to worry. I told him to worry much & follow the liquidators rec. process.
     
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  6. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    PM paid for but not shipped means the buyer is now a creditor.
    Unallocated means you are a creditor.
    Allocated means you are a creditor.
    Safety boxes means you will get everything back.

    If you are a creditor you will get % back. There will be a ranking with very different percentage back between secured and various unsecured, presume allocated will rank with secured creditors, but everything will be classified as unsecured creditor.

    Only people who are guaranteed everything are safety boxes. Everything else you are creditor with different ranking and you will have to wait in line to get your percentage.

    If you have undelivered orders.. and paid for by credit card, talk to your credit card company and start the FREE SERVICE offered by credit companies to do a CHARGEBACK.

    Sucks if you direct debited or paid by cash
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
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  7. Gigrantor

    Gigrantor Member

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    How much % is that?
     
  8. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    % anything between FML to nothing.
    Depends how much it owes and if you are secured or an unsecured creditor.

    Liquidation occurs because it is beyond insolvent.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  9. Gigrantor

    Gigrantor Member

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    Is there a difference to receiving goods/refund for orders placed pre appointment and post appointment?
     
  10. Gigrantor

    Gigrantor Member

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    My order was made over a week before the liquidators took over yet the business was still taking orders, it almost feels like they did this with the intention of stealing people's funds for as long as they could get away with it!

    I was a loyal customer for over 5 years and this is how they repay me!

    Not bloody happy!!!
     
  11. mrsilverservice

    mrsilverservice Well-Known Member

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    From what I've read it could be safer to buy from here o_O

    I wish you well :(












    The Book of Timothy - Timothy 1 Chapter 6 verse 10

    The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil :mad:
     
  12. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I would find it very strange if a receiver or liquidator took the stance that the safety deposit box contents belong to them. Be it held in trust or not, if operated as safety boxes. Ie paying $x a month or per year and a key is required for a physical box.

    It would be akin to a property owner defaulting on mortgage and the bank claiming the contents like wedding rings, the car in the garage inside the rental property belongs to bank and not to the Tenants.

    Though if the safety box was pseudo gimmick like “your allocated gold is stored in our safety box” than it belongs to the liquidators.
     
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  13. fishduck

    fishduck Active Member

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    I wanted to spin this discussion a little bit into a topic I don't think I saw anyone talking about, if the unallocated/allocated and safety deposit boxes has insurance included in whatever contract/arrangement made, how would this work?
    My understanding is that SMSF holders must have insurance if they are storing their PMs in a safety deposit box.
    I also know that for people who have allocated storage, most(or almost always) of the time insurance is included in the storage fees.
    My understanding is that this covers fire/theft etc and should cover insolvency (please correct me if I'm wrong).
    How long would this take and would this under the liquidators discretion? Or would the insurance not trigger if its held in a seperate trust under your name and therefore your PMs get returned?

    As mentioned above, how about a scenario where the liquidator takes a stance on your unallocated/allocated and safety boxes? Can you claim insurance if you don't get a full return?

    Any ideas would be much appreciated :)
     
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  14. josh_676

    josh_676 New Member

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    Precious metals are like Bitcoin, if you don't hold the private key (or in this case the physical gold) you don't own the gold... Very sad.
     
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  15. CuBuffAu

    CuBuffAu New Member

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    No point ringing OR emailing as they have not responded to any of the above options of mine since weeks ago, i paid 1 month ago!!
    and still received nothing !!!
     
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  16. josh_676

    josh_676 New Member

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    I think a big part of the problem here will be, the Federal Government will be the major creditor, and I am 100 percent sure they'll get the pound of flesh, and leave nothing at all for other creditors.
     
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  17. madaw1

    madaw1 Well-Known Member

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    That's correct. It looks like safety boxes /in Banks and some other institutions/are NOT SAFE any more. You own it whatever you hold it!!!
     
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  18. President Trump

    President Trump Member Silver Stacker

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    2 things are certain:

    1. The liquidators can't take items in true safety deposit boxes. There is plenty of case law on this. The contents of a safety deposit box is owned by the depositor (not the provider of the box) so the liquidator has no rights to it. There is no trust arrangement, it is very simple; the owner is the owner.

    2. After the liquidator is appointed, he cannot accept money for a PM unless a) he decides it is in the interest of the unsecured creditors to conduct this business and b) he is able to supply the product. So the liquidator will return Gigrantors money or supply the PM. But he needs time to do so.
     
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  19. President Trump

    President Trump Member Silver Stacker

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    The question is: is it a TRUE safety deposit box!
     
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  20. fishduck

    fishduck Active Member

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    What is a true safety box and what isn't?
     

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