Our Daily Bread a.k.a. MCC Fix (Random Thoughts, Updates, Advice, Etc)

Discussion in 'Modern Chinese Coins & Medallions' started by KeepOnTrying!, May 25, 2015.

  1. KeepOnTrying!

    KeepOnTrying! Member

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    I buy slabbed coins whenever I find/can afford them. However, the question is what to do with recent issue double OMP coin/medal purchases. I am concerned with the controversial association of white spots and haze following slabbing. I am not immediately desirous of selling my collection. Should I slab them now or leave in the double OMP packaging? Which one is safer for my coins?

    I define double OMP as coin/medal in rigid plastic coin holder plus pliable plastic envelope.

    Does the advice differ if it is a single OMP i.e. coin in pliable pastic envelope?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Elkslayer132

    Elkslayer132 New Member

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    Once they are slabbed I vacuum seal them in plastic can't get much better than that. Then you can handle them all you want with no worries.
     
  3. barsenault

    barsenault Well-Known Member

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    that's what I do too. I go one step further. I buy the intercept bags (1.00 each) and put the slabbed coin inside in, and then vacuum seal. It's worked like a charm.
     
  4. Elkslayer132

    Elkslayer132 New Member

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    What is a intercept bag? And where do you get them?
     
  5. Stark

    Stark Active Member Silver Stacker

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    I'm doing mainly vice versa. :)

    I guess it also depends on the bags you are using for vacuum sealing. Some contain less (or "no") chemicals.
     
  6. madronya

    madronya New Member

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    I like these from Amazon:

    Bulk Pack of 100 - Tarnish Intercept Anti-tarnish Zip-lock Bags, 6" x 8"

    Available in different sizes/quantities. I usually put a desiccant pack in the bag as well or even a small anti-tarnish paper square.
     
  7. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    My thinking is that it likely makes little difference whether slabbed or double OGP/OMP so long as you seal in safe plastic the slabbed medal as soon as you can after receiving it. The only slab that is air tight appears to be the brand new PCGS slabs (I put a link to a video of it in another thread). All other slabs, as far as I'm aware, can not be guaranteed to be airtight.

    If NGC has their thinking cap screwed on the right way, they will have to come up with an equivalent within a year otherwise they may be perceived as not caring about many collector's concerns regarding spots or surface corrosion (a.k.a. "toning").



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  8. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    Do you know if the 4" X 6" bags comfortably fit normal size slabs?



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  9. madronya

    madronya New Member

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    I don't from personal knowledge because I tend to stuff multiple items in each 6x8 bag. But one of the reviewers of the 4x4 says:

    For coin collectors, this fits NGC/PCGS slabs perfectly (perfect for the height but there is excess space at the sides since the bags are squarish and not rectangular).
     
  10. Stark

    Stark Active Member Silver Stacker

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    I think Coin Armour or smth is doing these bags.

    In "Silver Coins" subforum some members suggested to keep PM in ammo boxes.

    I guess only time will tell what is better. Had some coins that were not stored in capsules and they are in perfect condition and some that I got with milkspots as soon as I opened the package.

    Also by theory if physics 100% vacuum is not possible. Kitchen vacuum cleaners usually suck up to 90% of air. In long term this air that is kept inside my do damage as well.
    Not to mention the plastics in which they are put.
     
  11. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    Long term (10 - 20 plus years) storage in vacuum sealed non-plasticizer bags is untested I believe. I'm not even sure if most plastic bags will stay in tact that long. Plastic tends to get brittle and cracks after some period of time. So coin bags may need to get checked after 5 years and the coins / medals may need to be re-vacuum sealed at some point.


    But I am convinced sealing coins/medals is a much more protective way to store them than if left un-sealed. Surface corrosion / tarnish (a.k.a. "toning") is something I do not want to see on my coins / medals. Sealing them should prevent this type of surface degradation. If I wanted my collector coins / medals to have color on them, I'd just buy colored coins to begin with. Otherwise, I want my coins and medals to be kept in as close to pristine condition as possible; as close to the condition they were when they came off the press.


    Coin holders / slabs may last a much longer time than bags...and with the advent of the air-tight slabs from PCGS, this could be a significant step forward for protective storage for coins / medals.




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  12. barsenault

    barsenault Well-Known Member

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    Hey Missing, I agree with you about the longevity of the vacuum seal. I'm not sure it lasts more than a year or 2? But I don't mind resealing them that often, it gives me a chance to peek in at all the wonderful coins and medals I've purchased over the years. And I do believe vacuuming sealing does make a difference, and I do think those intercept bags work. I believe some high profile museums use those bags when transporting precious medals. And then of course water absorbers help...and I also put air absorbers in too, and then I lock them in a storage container (air-tite/water-tite), while they sit in a temperture controlled storage facility. I take no chances. lol. As you said, if I wanted colorized coins, I'd just buy them. lol.
     
  13. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    ^ You have the ultimate storage plan Barsenault!

    I really do believe that the new water / air tight PCGS slabs are the benchmark and is a big leap forward in protection of coins / medals. No other slabs that I'm aware of have ever been water / air tight.

    You clearly do more business with NGC than I have, Barsenault....I am planning on calling NGC today to prod them about redesigning their slabs to meet or exceed PCGS's new water / air tight slabs. Why don't you do the same Barsenault....not necessarily today, but whenever you get a chance.

    Why should we allow NGC to get away with resorting to put our precious collectibles in what is now inferior slabs if the capability and technology is already available to make water / air tight slabs?

    NGC

    USA
    P.O. Box 4776
    Sarasota, FL 34230
    1-800-NGC-COIN toll free
    +1 941-360-3990
    +1 941-360-2553 fax
    [email protected]


    Hong Kong
    NGC-NCS-PMG
    Tsim Sha Tsui, Kowloon
    Hong Kong
    +852 2115-3639
    [email protected]


    Switzerland
    NGC-NCS-PMG
    Zurich, CHE
    +41 43 816 28 16
    [email protected]


    Germany
    NGC-NCS-PMG
    Maximiliansplatz 12a
    D 80333 Munich, Germany
    +49 89 255 47 545
    [email protected]



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  14. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    I just made a call to NGC; I spoke with Becky in the USA office. I asked her to impress upon the NGC heads, next time she is in a meeting with them, to redesign their holder to be water / air tight in par with PCGS's new holder.


    Now it's your turn to prod NGC to step up their game for their customers.



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  15. KeepOnTrying!

    KeepOnTrying! Member

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    Coin Activism!!!! Hehehe!!!
    I'll call too and give them hell. Ask to talk to the real boss!
     
  16. trozau

    trozau Member

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    So how will you verify that the slab is water/air tight? Test each one by submerging in water for some time? What happens to those that fail? Will the TPG reimburse you for the ruined coin in the slab that failed?
     
  17. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    PCGS is not guaranteeing their new holders to be air tight (not that I'm aware of), but wouldn't you rather store your coin in a holder that is designed to be air tight rather than a holder that most definitely isn't?????????




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  18. Stark

    Stark Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Some things can also be only marketing trick. I guess there is nobody that will go and test their precious collection in water. :p

    Coin Armour (Intercept) is guaranteeing warranty for up to 5 years ("Expected Corrosion Protection Term").

    If the production of coins/medals is less prone to milk spots then I guess it won't make so much difference. One of my NORFEDs, from 2008, was stored in plastic holder and it's without any milk spots or oxidation. First Zombuck I ordered had milk spots directly from the mint.

    One thing I don't like so much about all this medals and stuff is their "random" size. It's hard or impossible to find capsules for them. Slabbing all of them is not possible. Plastic pouches they come inside can be easily opened during the shipping.

    Some info can be found here (and on hundreds of other sites):
    http://www.usgoldexpert.com/articles/10-myths-of-the-modern-coin-market/

     
  19. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    I'd be very leery about such a "guarantee". Besides, I haven't seen anywhere on the web the actual wording of an alleged guarantee for the Intercept bags.

    As for creating a vacuum inside a slab, I haven't seen any TPG company claim that...not even PCGS with their new water / air tight slab.

    PCGS has way, way, way, way, way, way, way too much at stake to create some marketing gimmick for a coin slab...doing that might immediately kill a huge portion of their business. It would be like BMW introducing a new car and claiming that it requires no money to operate. Such a gimmick might immediately kill off a huge portion of their business.

    I guarantee you that a lot of people will be water testing the new PCGS slabs...especially people who have some connection to any other top TPG company. After all, anyone can get a penny with a graded value of 5 cents put into one of the new PCGS slabs by PCGS and they would jeopardize 5 cents worth of value to try to catch PCGS in a fraud by putting that slab into water. Why on earth would that be a difficult thing to do?

    There would be no reason for PCGS to make totally false claims about their new slab. They claim it is virtually air tight but they do not claim the create a vacuum before it is sealed. I don't know if they will start making some sort of guarantee regarding their new slab...they might.

    I like it very much that PCGS has invested a large amount of money into developing a cutting edge coin holder. If PCGS employed the same level of expertise in Chinese medals grading / authentication as NGC, I'd switch to PCGS because of the new slab. But I'm convinced NGC can not be matched in terms of that.




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  20. Stark

    Stark Active Member Silver Stacker

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    I'm not saying this is not possible. I actually hope this will one day happen. Or already is. Or smth will appear that will preserve coins and medals in state in which they were received.

    However until smbdy promise you to get the value of coin or medal back in case of the opposite as claimed... I will be always at least a little bit sceptical about this. And I guess considering money they receive for slabbing and services compared to the "market" value of some of the stuff this is nearly impossible.

    There are always ways for companies (or their lawyers) to find some excuse and blame it on user.
    I read some years ago case about a woman that brought her laptop for a service and the repair shop claimed that problems appeared because she was using it in too "dusty" environment.

    I guess only time will tell.
    To make correct experiment you would need to have coins and medals from different producers stored in different ways. And this repeated in different environments like smbdy who once wrote on forum that coins received during the winter might get milk spots sooner.
     

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