Monitoring the Crypto Bubble

Discussion in 'Digital Currencies' started by Bullion Baron, Dec 12, 2017.

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Where do you think we are in the crypto bubble?

  1. Very early (years left to run)

    30 vote(s)
    21.0%

  2. Around the middle (could still run for months or a year)

    54 vote(s)
    37.8%

  3. Very late (could end within days/weeks)

    34 vote(s)
    23.8%

  4. It's not a bubble

    25 vote(s)
    17.5%
Page 150 of 159
  1. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    ^ Sacrificing security for speed.
     
    mmm....shiney!, Jan 8, 2025
    #2981
  2. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    This sums it up.
     
    mmm....shiney!, Jan 8, 2025
    #2982
  3. IPDA

    IPDA Active Member

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    Yes, I disagree with you. Normal human experience. Again, we don't all have to be laser eyed Bitcoin bulls.

    Cardano & Ethereum are secure networks (especially Cardano, it's never been hacked), they're PoS? So they're sacrificing nothing lol.
     
    IPDA, Jan 9, 2025
    #2983
  4. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    No one is talking about being a BTC laser-eyed bull. There's a time for a bullish outlook and a time for a bearish outlook.

    Peter Schiff will always have a bearish outlook on BTC because his negative thesis of BTC influences his thinking.

    The Ethereum and Cardano networks are not as secure as the Bitcoin network because they are POS. Power can become concentrated in the hands of a few, this is next to impossible with the Bitcoin network. You can't have speed and security, there's a trade off.

    And Cardano is a an Asian masseuse, the devs have always been promising to "love you long long time" yet don't deliver.

    So forgetting Cardano, does Ether posses the same characteristics as BTC and challenge it for the #1 token?

    1. It's a monetary good. (No)
    2. It's the most decentralised and secure network. (Nope)
    3. It doesn't seek to solve problems that other cryptocurrencies are designed to. (It pioneered smart contracts)
    4. It is the most widely adopted digital asset for investment allocation. (Nope)
    5. It's scarce. (Nope)
    6. It is the most liquid. (Nope)
    7. It was the first successful ecosystem designed to support the exchange of value at a peer-peer level without the need for a centralised authority to approve the transaction. (Nope)
     
    mmm....shiney!, Jan 9, 2025
    #2984
    Golden ChipMunk and precious roar like this.
  5. pmbug

    pmbug Well-Known Member

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    This is incorrect. Bitcoin has been vulnerable in the past:

    http://qz.com/165273/the-existentia...oosters-said-was-impossible-is-now-at-hand/#/

    and power is concentrating again today:

    https://cryptonews.com/news/us-domi...th-over-40-of-global-hashrate-at-end-of-2024/

    On top of that, miner profitability is the lowest it's been in years:

    https://www.coindesk.com/markets/20...-december-for-second-month-in-a-row-jp-morgan

    The governance of the Bitcoin Network is still largely controlled by a few key developers:

    https://www.amazon.com/Hijacking-Bitcoin-Hidden-History-BTC/dp/B0CXWBCWDR

    Cardano on the other hand has transitioned to a decentralized governance model:

    https://www.coinspeaker.com/cardano-eyes-plomin-hard-fork-amid-push-for-community-governance/

    Cardano and newer blockchain systems like Polkadot, SUI, MultiversX, etc. are even faster and still secure. MultiversX's sharding technology has largely solved the Blockchain Trilema.
     
    pmbug, Jan 9, 2025
    #2985
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  6. Golden ChipMunk

    Golden ChipMunk Well-Known Member

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    Gotta luv this cos it is funny
     
    Golden ChipMunk, Jan 9, 2025
    #2986
    Real $ Return likes this.
  7. Polar.bear.Stacker

    Polar.bear.Stacker Well-Known Member

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    I think the anti-bitcoin people on this forum can't be bothered to do actual research. The stakeholders in any cryptocurrency network are the users, the nodes, the miners for (PoW) and the validators for (PoS). You are mistaking 'taking over the network' for miners are being concentrated, which is less of an issue than if the nodes became centralised. Just think of the ultimate centralised node (A central bank).
     
    Polar.bear.Stacker, Jan 9, 2025
    #2987
    mmm....shiney! likes this.
  8. pmbug

    pmbug Well-Known Member

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    Miner concentration in PoW is a direct analogue to node concentration in PoS. Either scenario empowers a single actor with the means to muck around with the network. One might argue that the situation is actually more dire in PoW systems as PoS concentration might be mitigated to a degree by the slashing policy of the validator staking system depending upon the threshold levels (could be much higher than 51% miner threshold in BTC's PoW system).
     
    pmbug, Jan 9, 2025
    #2988
  9. pmbug

    pmbug Well-Known Member

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    I would also add that BTC maxis tend to dismiss PoS systems assuming they all work like Ethereum's original design. PoS systems have evolved a lot since Ethereum first moved to PoS. Check this out for example:
    https://docs.multiversx.com/learn/consensus/

    Understand that this security is applied to a network where validator nodes do not require state of the art GPU hardware to participate in the network:
    https://docs.multiversx.com/validators/system-requirements/

    IIRC, MultiversX currently has ~3,000 decentralized validators. This is just one example where BTC maxis are the ones that have done zero research when they claim BTC's PoW is better than PoS systems. They really have no idea what PoS systems have evolved into. We are at a point today where lumping all PoS systems into one blanket category is no longer honest. There is a huge gulf of technical difference out there in the evolution of different PoS systems.
     
    pmbug, Jan 9, 2025
    #2989
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  10. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    This conversation is getting altogether funnier.

    Currently 430 reachable nodes.

    https://egldscan.com/identities/multiversx

    Ummm, BTC has over 21K.

    https://bitnodes.io/

    And you forgot to mention to be a validator you also need to stake 2500 EGLD, which at about USD32 a pop is somewhere around USD80K (AUD129K). Still, that's not so bad, considering......

    Screenshot 2025-01-10 at 7.20.01 am.png
     
    mmm....shiney!, Jan 9, 2025
    #2990
  11. pmbug

    pmbug Well-Known Member

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    It's possible I confused the 3,000 number from a different blockchain - that's why I prefaced that statement with IIRC. The larger points remain.
     
    pmbug, Jan 9, 2025
    #2991
  12. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    You didn't. There's something like 3600 validators on the network but only the 400 or so were active at the time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2025
    mmm....shiney!, Jan 9, 2025
    #2992
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  13. pmbug

    pmbug Well-Known Member

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    Ah. That's likely a function of the sharding technology employed by the EGLD network. As transactions increase, it shards (or delegates) tasks to more nodes. The 400 or so active nodes were sufficient to handle the transaction volume at the moment you checked.

    Also, your 21k BTC nodes comment is largely irrelevant. BTC miners operate farms of nodes. From the second link in post 2985:
    Two companies control nearly 40% of the BTC network presently.
     
    pmbug, Jan 10, 2025
    #2993
  14. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    You're conflating mining with validating.
     
    mmm....shiney!, Jan 10, 2025
    #2994
  15. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    Cost to set up a MultiversX validator node: $130K Australian or more? I've got no idea how much it costs to buy the stuff above.

    Cost to set up a BTC node: $156 including delivery

    https://zaitronics.com.au/products/raspberry-pi-4-4gb-model-b-barebones-starter-kit

    And another $150 for an external drive:

    https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/officeworks/p/samsung-1tb-t7-portable-ssd-grey-sassd1tbgy

    I've got no idea how much electricity one of those things consume, I've read $5/year and there's maybe 20GB of data/month.

    Then you're on your way to operating a full node. More info here:

    https://raspibolt.org/guide/raspberry-pi/preparations.html
     
    mmm....shiney!, Jan 10, 2025
    #2995
  16. pmbug

    pmbug Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I should have quoted different sentences for you.
    You may quibble with technicalities if you like, but my essential point remains. From the first link I posted in post 2985 (from 2014):
    Foundry USA already controls enough of the global hashrate to potentially launch a "51%" attack.
     
    pmbug, Jan 10, 2025
    #2996
  17. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    You're conflating miners with validators.

    But I'll just leave this here:

    https://qz.com/165300/no-bitcoin-isnt-about-to-be-taken-over-by-a-massive-cartel

    Attempting a 51% attack is effectively committing corporate suicide.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2025
    mmm....shiney!, Jan 10, 2025
    #2997
  18. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    So as it currently stands about 65 - 70% of the BTC network's hashing power is currently not under the control of Foundry.
     
    mmm....shiney!, Jan 10, 2025
    #2998
  19. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    And the 21K BTC nodes are individual IP addresses. If there are a group of nodes with the same IP address eg a farm, they're considered 1 node in the data collection method.
     
    mmm....shiney!, Jan 10, 2025
    #2999
  20. pmbug

    pmbug Well-Known Member

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    pmbug, Jan 10, 2025
    #3000
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