2013 Shanghai Memory with Panda

Stark said:
Very well said. Send greetings to dogs and artillery. ;) :D

Yeah, I'm more into collectibles. Mainly try to hunt coins that have small mintage/like them a lot. I will probably be collecting Lunars and maybe Pandas or Libertads as well, for swapping (some of) them. But core collection are (semi)numis. Stock Horse was great investment, some CIT coins and love the Norfeds. :D

I'm done with colored too. Would buy some, but only for keeping them. I've sold all mine D&D, was more or less on loss with every coin. Maybe that would be different in next few years, who knows, but I doubt. Red Spider was the king, all the rest were just followers. :)
Sold Red Squirrel for almost 50% than was purchase price. It still hurts. :/
I like gilded too. :)

I guess we have quite similar taste. :D

I prefer more "simple" coins (Tiffany art and some other are exception). What I like about this Shanghai coin and other Chinese coins is sort of "vintage" look (at least on pictures), and not many "colors". Don't have any Chinese coin so far so can't say they look the same.
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Yeah, we indeed do have similar interests. I just can't believe how badly colored coins get punished. I'm just hoping that there is a change of sentiment down the road. I'll hold mine for a long while, if there is a nice pop in the price...I know, a big IF! Here's to hoping for another red spider...if memory serves me correctly, the red spider price rise didn't happen overnight, or did it? I will unload if prices go up. I have about 10 each of the funnel spiders and yellow snakes...I know, I got bamboozled. And I didn't buy them for 74.99 on Apmex...and even with their low price, they can't unload them them. Another of my favorite is the gilded tiger. Have quite a few of those...and with a mintage of only 15,000, I think in time they will move into strong hands, and price will go up. Just recently bought 5 gilded dragons.m those are nice too...looking forward to seeing the horses....oh, and I need to save my pennies for next years horse series. :-) great 'chatting.' :-)
 
Some insights into a Chinese coin dealer in Shanghai.

As for the medal you mentioned, my little insight is that, please don't buy any more Shanghai Ghetto memory medal. I know NGC is slabbing this medal. But to be honest, as per the feedback from my associates from shanghai mint, it's not an official product from them. Actually shanghai mint got some orders and is making this medal for some guys, the designer is also not from shanghai mint, it's not even listed in shanghai mint's product category, however, somehow the designer got the permit from shanghai mint and used shanghai mint's logo to print on the medal, box and COA.
In a word, it's a medal that we cannot trust too much. You know shanghai memorial is not popular at all in China. God only knows why it's so 'hot' in the USA, besides, shanghai mint's never given english description for its official product, but for this shanghai memorial medal, I found english description surprisingly. I have a feeling the desinger of this medal and some overseas speculators are working closely for this medal, they 'prey' on those oversea clients with deep pockets. Why NGC prints 'shanghai ghetto' on the slab? Koz I really can find neither Chinese nor English of any 'JEWS' or 'GHETTO' on the medal itself. Only 'Shanghai Memory' is there, so why it is only related to Jews? You know this medal can be just for every person who has ever been in the old shanghai for some time and due to the 1949's re~gime change and left shanghai. What I want to say is that, the reasonable price for this medal should be around 100 USD. To take advantage of Jews and to make money from them from a sad history is disgusting. So my opinion: 6 pcs for this medal is enough for this moment, if you want to buy more of this medal, wait for a while, as I think its price will fall and it's better for you to choose coins instead of medals (those not official products from shanghai, shenyang, shenzhen mints) for investiment in the future.

A rebuttal to the Chinese dealer from one of the dealers selling these coins in the U.S.

Very interesting.

Indeed the Shanghai medal was commissioned and created though the efforts of an american (my write-up here). In fact many of the panda medals were created in collaboration with foreigners - most notably the promoters of various coin shows and expos around the world. Most contain some message of friendship and cooperation with China. This one is unusual in that I think it is the first that commemorates a historical event. These are medals and not coins, which are a different class of product made in the same facilities, but have a different approval process because they are not legal tender.

Historically, the panda medals have had more popularity outside of China than inside. The mintages are generally much smaller than the coins and they have had good international following.

The market dynamics of the Chinese coin market inside China are different than those outside. For instance,
Chinese do not care very much about date varieties, while american collectors pay hefty premiums for unusual types.
Americans prefer certified coins, while Germans and Chinese prefer original packaging (although that is changing in china)
Chinese prefer to collect sets of all 5 size coins of each date, while Americans prefer to collect all the dates of a given size
Market fads and trends often differ in China, vs US, vs Europe
Medals tend to be more popular among foreigners
I would argue that the Americans have actually been the been in the lead in this market, since we and the Germans owned nearly all the panda coins before the Chinese began buying them about 5 years ago, and Americans identified the varieties and introduced certification (which are now of growing interest in china). My view is that it is best to be ahead of the pack....

Many very common silver pandas cost well over $200. Silver 2003 and 2004 pandas, with mintages of 600,000 sell for over $200 in MS69 on ebay. 1983-1985 silver pandas with 10,000 mintage are now in the $2000+ range. As I mentioned in my article, a 1990 Zurich gold coin expo medal sold for $5676 in the Hong Kong auction last month (mintage 550). All of the China dealers attend that auction and a medal (not an official coin) was bid up to 4x bullion value....

Final note. The Chinese dealers are masters at collaborating to manipulate market sentiment. They will often work in unison to low-ball or bid-up a particular coin. I dont know the situation on the shanghai medal specifically, but I would not be surprised if the dealers who downplay the product are also buying it. It is also possible there is a little resentment that this was created by a foreigner.
 
barsenault said:
Not sure why the hmm. I don't buy just one of something, I have five in my family. Heck, I hope to pass my stack of 3000 of all sorts of kooks, pandas, lunars, and brits on to them...sure I hope they go up in value, but if I like the message, and look, I'm assuming there are many others who do too, so if ever we need to sell, it won't be a problem. So I guess I should rephrase...I bought for the message, knowing it will go up in value over time...or so I hope! :-)
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My apologies for the "Hmm...". Form the initial read, your posting seemed conflicting. Most collectors buy/can only afford 1 example for each item in their collection. I did not realize that you are actually keeping 5 sets (1 for each of your family members). The only coins I bought more than 1 example in my collection are:
a) 2009 US Double Eagle UHR (4 - 1 for each member of my family)
b) 2001 US $1 ASE WTC Ground Zero Recovery PCGS MS69 (2 - 1 for each of my 2 kids)
The rest of the collection just divides among the family
 
barsenault said:
Stark said:
Well, I doubt many sellers would tell you that coin is not selling well. ;)
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LOL. You're right. I've been watching them on eBay, and they are selling out quickly and raising prices...good sign I guess. :-)
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I have not seen the prices go up. all the ones I have seen are at $218 shipped and have not changed.
 
silverbulldog said:
barsenault said:
Stark said:
Well, I doubt many sellers would tell you that coin is not selling well. ;)
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LOL. You're right. I've been watching them on eBay, and they are selling out quickly and raising prices...good sign I guess. :-)
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I have not seen the prices go up. all the ones I have seen are at $218 shipped and have not changed.
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They were $188 in August.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com
 
Is it something to be concerned about when one of these NGC, PMG and CCE Authorized Dealers who is distributing these is involved in the OMP resealing controversy?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121176039576

We now have "older" seal patterns being used to make coins appear to be OMP for sale at APMEX as well as on eBay.
So far we seem to have Coinnext, Panda America and Apmex selling these resealed coins.

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=9459.msg54959#msg54959

Edit: It seems these were mint sealed (?) and then resealed?

Hi,
Long story in short, some seals got open when shipped from Shanghai to US.
So the Spungen family fundation (the co-issuer of this medal) re-sealed some of them.

we are one of the official distributors for this medal and we tried to give u the consecutive numbers. Maybe that is why u had a couple of re-sealed ones.

if u do not like, we can exchange for u. But all the medals are in GEM proof condition. we did not cherry pick any.

BTW, other distributors just cut the seal and sell the medals in capsule only.

Thanks for your business.

Min

- qianscoins
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