Universal basic income (UBI)

What system would you prefer?

  • Keep our current overly complex top down social support system.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Replace the above with a cleaner bottom up UBI.

    Votes: 5 62.5%

  • Have no social support system, so 100% free market.

    Votes: 3 37.5%
  • Total voters
    8
leo25

leo25

Well-Known Member
Silver Stacker
@mmm....shiney! created a discussion a while ago on MMT which at the time was heavenly debated (still is I guess) Now I think we should have one on UBI. Hope it can clarify some misconceptions as the MMT thread did and change the way we see our system as it is now and how it could be in the future.

As a starting point this follows on from https://www.silverstackers.com/forums/index.php?threads/the-foundation-of-our-modern-economy-bs-fake-jobs.

If anyone comes across good videos talking about this topic (for or against) please post here.

To sum up UBI, it should replace all the current complex welfare/support or incentive programs we have today into a single payment that every gets. The idea is UBI should be enough to cover basic living needs, but not enough to have extra things. So people will still be driven to work in order to buy extra things in life. Just as many people today choose to work extra hours so they can have more than the very basics.
 
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Something to think about, our current system traps some people on the dole. As when some people try to do the right thing and start working, the government punishes them by removing the dole. In some cases the dole is equal to their new income, so they choose not to get the job and just stay on the dole.

UBI would encourage more of those people to work, as when they start working all that extra money stays in their pockets. Thus UBI rewards instead of punishing these people to get a job.

There will always be a very few that will choose to only be on the dole and UBI won’t solve that. So some will still choose to just get the UBI and do nothing too. Though that has shown to be a very small about of people, remember even a bogan wants a Ute and 60” TV.

The idea of any social support system is to stop the people at the bottom from burning down the entire system.
 
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I think a UBI is a feasible concept only if it was being taken from a large sovereign wealth fund and there were no top-ups in dole payments for able bodied people who refuse to work.
 
Why not just lower prices to an affordable level.
Seems easier than creating a ubi that will drive prices up.

Throwing money at poor people and the economically illiterate does no good. They will blow every cent and still be broke and confused.
 
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leo25 said:
It’s paywalled. Can you please give a summary?
Click to expand...

In the past 50 years, scientists have mapped the entire human genome and eradicated smallpox. Here in the United States, infant-mortality rates and deaths from heart disease have fallen by roughly 70 percent, and the average American has gained almost a decade of life. Climate change was recognized as an existential threat. The internet was invented.

On the problem of poverty, though, there has been no real improvement — just a long stasis. As estimated by the federal government’s poverty line, 12.6 percent of the U.S. population was poor in 1970; two decades later, it was 13.5 percent; in 2010, it was 15.1 percent; and in 2019, it was 10.5 percent. To graph the share of Americans living in poverty over the past half-century amounts to drawing a line that resembles gently rolling hills. The line curves slightly up, then slightly down, then back up again over the years, staying steady through Democratic and Republican administrations, rising in recessions and falling in boom years.
 
JohnnyBravo300 said:
hy not just lower prices to an affordable level.
Click to expand...

The government could scrap GST.

JohnnyBravo300 said:
They will blow every cent and still be broke and confused.
Click to expand...

If it is introduced that's exactly what the government wants them to do.

In other news:

The NSW Kids Future Fund is just the next step in our long-term economic plan for NSW
Click to expand...

https://nswliberal.org.au/kids-future-fund

Screen Shot 2023-03-13 at 7.17.37 am.png

Finally, someone is thinking of the children. :p
 
mmm....shiney! said:
Finally, someone is thinking of the children. :p
Click to expand...
Are they? The plan sounds pointless to me.

Seems to only benefit wealthier families where money for the children is not an issue to begin with. Doesn't do anything for poor families where the children are money constrained.

Say a low income family puts in $400 per year and the gov matches it to $800. After 18 years that's only $14,000. "Assume" a 6% growth rate on the fund then $27,470. In 18 years time $27K would only buy the kid a scooter. Perrottet saying it will help them with a home is a joke. Maybe he expects the poor to live in tents in the future?
 
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People complain about UBI giving drop kicks money, but no one complains about banks lending drop kicks even more money. :p
Though unlike UBI, bank debt creates trapped/desperate people and those people tend to create onlyfans accounts.

The main girl in this video need to have a psychological test. Very disturbing.
 
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