TreasureHunter
Well-Known Member
I am still surprised to see that there are (still) so many buildings left there. All we hear about in the news is controlled demolition with F-16's.
2020 Collapse
- Thread starter TreasureHunter
- Start date
I am still surprised to see that there are (still) so many buildings left there. All we hear about in the news is controlled demolition with F-16's.
TreasureHunter
Well-Known Member
Strong points made in this video (very honest, as opposed to many other people who are "cautious" about condemning cryptos).
Strong points about why crypto is worthless as a store of value and why PM's are the real deal.
Perhaps SilverStackers will re-become a PM forum again?
Strong points about why crypto is worthless as a store of value and why PM's are the real deal.
Perhaps SilverStackers will re-become a PM forum again?
Michael Kay
Well-Known Member
This guy does have a point, but the market may stay irrational for much longer, and the bubbles may take a longer to pop. Gold bugs will always promote economic collapse, and let's face it, the video is just an ad for gold.Strong points made in this video (very honest, as opposed to many other people who are "cautious" about condemning cryptos).
Strong points about why crypto is worthless as a store of value and why PM's are the real deal.
Perhaps SilverStackers will re-become a PM forum again?
At the end of the day, I would recommend people keep putting their money in PM, but not all of it. Diversification is key, but "all in on PMs" is not a good idea. This video made me want to go out and buy bullion. 25% Cash, 25% stocks, 25 % RE (if possible) and 25% PM is the traditional diversification strategy.
Last edited:
It always has been. The forum's owners chose to include a Digital Currencies sub-forum because he recognised the value of DLTs.
Whats your view of Plat prices in 5 years?
Plat is a slow start
Palladium had visited 3000
Gold is yet to re-visit 2000
Silver no where near 50 yet
so they likely to rank, Pd, Au then Pt
when gold is near 2k again, Pt would be near by
so timing is out of place
the wolfpack, seems to move together in relation to one another
Palladium had visited 3000
Gold is yet to re-visit 2000
Silver no where near 50 yet
so they likely to rank, Pd, Au then Pt
when gold is near 2k again, Pt would be near by
so timing is out of place
the wolfpack, seems to move together in relation to one another
You dont think with the end of spark plugs and catalytic converters prices of PT and Pd will drop?
I dont know much about Plat nor pallidium, but I thought their use in automotive would be a big driver of spot?
TreasureHunter
Well-Known Member
Everything is getting more expensive in my area.
Quite recently wood, lumber prices have gone up and there's also a shortage. As a result, many wooden furniture products started becoming more expensive.
Before the pandemic there were no problems.
Meat is also more expensive. Some meat products are becoming very rare and the price is also tremendously high (especially beef and pork).
The quality of mean products except chicken has worsened.
All this happened during the pandemic period.
Fish is also more expensive. Price has doubled in 10 years. But the quality has dwindled.
Overfishing?
Green peppers and jalapenos are of worse quality. It's extremely difficult to buy anything that looks good.
You have to stand searching for acceptable green peppers in the supermarket, because most are of poor quality.
Apartments cost more. In some cities the price is 3x up compared to 10 years ago.
Quite recently wood, lumber prices have gone up and there's also a shortage. As a result, many wooden furniture products started becoming more expensive.
Before the pandemic there were no problems.
Meat is also more expensive. Some meat products are becoming very rare and the price is also tremendously high (especially beef and pork).
The quality of mean products except chicken has worsened.
All this happened during the pandemic period.
Fish is also more expensive. Price has doubled in 10 years. But the quality has dwindled.
Overfishing?
Green peppers and jalapenos are of worse quality. It's extremely difficult to buy anything that looks good.
You have to stand searching for acceptable green peppers in the supermarket, because most are of poor quality.
Apartments cost more. In some cities the price is 3x up compared to 10 years ago.
TreasureHunter
Well-Known Member
TreasureHunter
Well-Known Member
Countless videos on YouTube speak about "food shortage" and "the coming food shortage" and price inflation.
In recent weeks I've noticed that agricultural produce is even more scarce than it used to be in 2020 during "mid-pandemic madness".
It is a lot harder to find certain fruits and vegetables in my area. I went to 3 supermarkets one after another only to find a small quantity of inferior quality products.
The selection is also narrower.
I noticed the old trick of the shops: filling the shelves with similar products to cover up the shortage. Where there used to be many types of sea fruits, there were boxed frozen pizzas (usually the same type of products, but covering
many more shelves than usually).
Even red apples, carrots and onions are rarer. Unusually rare.
Sea fruits and fish are harder to find. Octopus almost impossible.
There are plenty of non-foods covering most of the shelves: chocolate, chips, coke... (yes, I intentionally called them "non-foods" )
Countless products, including hygiene products are showing up in smaller packaging. Some are trying to re-market the products in differently-colored packages and with odd-shaped packaging, so that it doesn't stand out that they're
actually sold in smaller quantities.
In recent weeks I've noticed that agricultural produce is even more scarce than it used to be in 2020 during "mid-pandemic madness".
It is a lot harder to find certain fruits and vegetables in my area. I went to 3 supermarkets one after another only to find a small quantity of inferior quality products.
The selection is also narrower.
I noticed the old trick of the shops: filling the shelves with similar products to cover up the shortage. Where there used to be many types of sea fruits, there were boxed frozen pizzas (usually the same type of products, but covering
many more shelves than usually).
Even red apples, carrots and onions are rarer. Unusually rare.
Sea fruits and fish are harder to find. Octopus almost impossible.
There are plenty of non-foods covering most of the shelves: chocolate, chips, coke... (yes, I intentionally called them "non-foods"
)Countless products, including hygiene products are showing up in smaller packaging. Some are trying to re-market the products in differently-colored packages and with odd-shaped packaging, so that it doesn't stand out that they're
actually sold in smaller quantities.
You eat octopus? I've a fear of octopus since young.
I've seen youtube on restaurants serving octopus in italy or cryprus, can't remember which. Can you please tell us about the state of vaccination on treasure island?
holdandown
Active Member
Strong points made in this video (very honest, as opposed to many other people who are "cautious" about condemning cryptos).
Strong points about why crypto is worthless as a store of value and why PM's are the real deal.
Perhaps SilverStackers will re-become a PM forum again?
I've never understood why people talk about cryptos as money or currency or stores of value. It is literally a series of computer generated numbers. It has no intrinsic value whatsoever.
Commodity money = an exchange medium in the form of some kind of tangible tradeable asset and store of value.
fiat money = paper script
Script was supposed to be a lightweight, compact and practical substitute for commodity money. It was originally backed by real commodities but that soon changed with the advent of fractional reserve banking in the Middle Ages and paper script became funny money, which it still is to this day.
A crypto isn't a store of value, it is a supplement or substitute for fiat funny money, backed by and priced in fiat funny money. No more, no less.
The "value" of crypto money is basically determined by fads and fickle public fashions. And by how much magic fiat funny is dumped on to markets and into Covid stimchecks by organisations such as the Federal Reserve, a private bank that has the power - backed by an enormous military machine - to issue infinite amounts of fiat money.
One can obviously go speculating with cryptos and win and lose fortunes in the process. The same thing was done back in the day with tulips and countless other money inventions.
One of the keys to success in succeeding in any pyramid scheme is to get in early, and to get out early.
It is obviously possible to get in more than once, at low price points, and to repeat that trick if your luck holds during the wild "value" swings.
Cryptos, in their current speculative and unbacked by commodities guise are obviously a very leveraged financial instrument of mass destruction. Hero, Zero or if you're lucky at least break even.
It's great for gambling and entertainment, but probably not a great idea to sink your life savings and assets into.
People talk about cryptos as if they are investments, but are they really? To me an investment should be something where the perceived value will not fluctuate wildly and be subject to fads and whims, and it should be something that's tangible, or at least tied to something that's tangible. Cryptos don't cut it for me in this regard.
Ultimately, it has no value except to what the fashion and market machinations will attribute to it and what people - or should one call them true believers? - will be prepared to throw at it.
When the chips are down, when things go south, when power cuts arrive, when the free money, stimchecks and UBI dries up, are starving people clinging to life really going to be pulling through via crypto gambling? It doesn't seem logical to me that they will.
Otoh, if those same people had access to food, fuel, building materials, weapons, drugs, medicines, land to sustain themselves and so on then they're in with a fighting chance.
One sees the craziest rationalisations for why cryptos have value out there.
My favourite one was from an enthusiast who claimed that because a load of energy was wasted on calculating / mining a bitcoin, that value is now locked up in the bitcoin.
According to this punter, wasted and expended energy = store of value and what gives Bitcoin value. Say what?
Bitcoin and similar could certainly have its uses provided one can cash in and cash out easily enough, were one to take (fiat) cross border or engage in risky forms of trade. Or if one wanted to speculate.
I don't buy the arguments about Bitcoin anonymity, there is some anonymity but not as much as many of the promoters seem to believe.
Cashing it out in certain environments is not so simple either.
To me, stuff that has value would be some kind of manufactured equipment that can be used to provide needed services or earn an income for the operator, mined minerals, food grown in the earth, knowledge, labour, energy. etc.
Magic numbers? Not so much.
All imo and I do of course understand that many will not share these views.
Last edited:
Yeah I'm probably the opposite, dumping in another $1000 on Ltc and Eth haha.
I understand where you're coming from tho and it's all good. We can all have our own choices and be happy!
I understand where you're coming from tho and it's all good. We can all have our own choices and be happy!
Think of crypto as digital script.
It also can be backed by commodity - like PAXG, a gold backed crypto.
People say all sort of daft things about crypto so its important to think for yourself. There are lots of different cryptos that do lots of different things. Getting fixated on the "currency" or "store of value" aspects that some cryptos claim is a bit last-decade.
It also can be backed by commodity - like PAXG, a gold backed crypto.
People say all sort of daft things about crypto so its important to think for yourself. There are lots of different cryptos that do lots of different things. Getting fixated on the "currency" or "store of value" aspects that some cryptos claim is a bit last-decade.
holdandown
Active Member
I agree with you Johnny. As you know you make money (and then some) for sure when you get your timing right in the crypto game.
To me, the concept to take note of is that there's a difference between speculating and investing and imo cryptos are best left for speculating, not for investing. Speculating is fine when one can afford to take the potential losses and while you're still earning regular income. It would be very high risk and irresponsible imo for some retired person to start playing with their life savings in the cryptosphere.
Investing imo is where one takes a more cautious approach and you tie your assets up into something more tangible like property for example, or pm's, or at least some form of lower risk paper shares.
I just cringe when I see people use terms like "investing in cryptos" because it is so volatile and fraught with risks that - to me at least - it couldn't possibly be an investment. It's speculation and there is a difference. Speculation's OK too, but obviously (or it should be obvious) this is a high risk sport where the risks need to be considered, calculated and be manageable.
To me, the concept to take note of is that there's a difference between speculating and investing and imo cryptos are best left for speculating, not for investing. Speculating is fine when one can afford to take the potential losses and while you're still earning regular income. It would be very high risk and irresponsible imo for some retired person to start playing with their life savings in the cryptosphere.
Investing imo is where one takes a more cautious approach and you tie your assets up into something more tangible like property for example, or pm's, or at least some form of lower risk paper shares.
I just cringe when I see people use terms like "investing in cryptos" because it is so volatile and fraught with risks that - to me at least - it couldn't possibly be an investment. It's speculation and there is a difference. Speculation's OK too, but obviously (or it should be obvious) this is a high risk sport where the risks need to be considered, calculated and be manageable.
holdandown
Active Member
I generally agree but I'm always wary about the "backed up by gold" type claims because there is usually no way to verify any of this.
Why do I say that?
There are many "backed by gold" type claims from investment products like ETF's. The problem always comes back to the same question, that question is "do they really have and own the gold they claim to". Most of these schemes I've looked at (and I'll be the first to admit I'm a layman, not a pro) couldn't provide satisfactory assurances that they actually did. These investment schemes are usually complex but when you start drilling down into the actual holdings of the pm's, how the auditing procedures work which are supposed to confirm that those holdings exist, what kinds of liabilities the holders of those pm's have etc etc it often becomes apparent that the ETF is the last in the queue should the day arrive that they need to take possession of those pm's from the holding facility or vault.
The TL;DR:
In these schemes there are often multiple claims against the physical, the "backed by gold scheme" is often the last in line to lay claim to that gold, after a series of other claimants to the same gold.
The auditing practices involved with ensuring that the phyz exists are often based on revolving gold swaps, meaning that (actual) phyz - and in outrageous cases probably even virtual phyz - can be swapped in and rented for the duration of the audits before being swapped out and rented by a different party who are making similar claims about possessing their own hoard of phyz. And so it goes.
A crypto backed by real tangible assets - assets that could be claimed easily and immediately in exchange for the crypto - would definitely be real aka commodity money. The problem is how can one be sure that those who operate that system are indeed on the level and do actually own and have complete control over the commodities they claim to.
Can one walk up to their counter in your town, claim your product in physical form and have them hand it over no questions asked?
Can they prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they have the commodities on hand to do the same for all holders of their cryptos, meaning that if one added up all the commodity holdings that it would equal the amount of crypto tokens they issued?
If the answers to those questions are "no", I'm afraid that crypto isn't backed by anything except a dream.
Imo none of these schemes - at least the ones I've looked at - appear to pass the smell test and there's a high risk that they will unravel during a meltdown, because they are fractional and none of them seem to have 1:1 (one script for one pm) holdings, and there are other claimants standing in line against those same holdings.
Last edited:
Ok, so consider PAXG - the gold-backed crypto to be the equivalent of a Gold ETF. Yes, there is counterparty risk but it is otherwise not that different but the crypto version can be transferred quickly, cheaply and anonymously amongst holders...even if redemption may be difficult or impossible for an individual (they are based in Singapore from memory)
These counterparties will often submit to auditors etc to confirm that the reserves are valid and exist (though not always - it depends on the counterparty)
People need to get out of their head that crypto is this tangible, intrinsic thing. Really they are usually just a more efficient version of things that already exist, often with no more or less risk involved.
These counterparties will often submit to auditors etc to confirm that the reserves are valid and exist (though not always - it depends on the counterparty)
People need to get out of their head that crypto is this tangible, intrinsic thing. Really they are usually just a more efficient version of things that already exist, often with no more or less risk involved.
Oh, I almost forgot - check out PMGT - The Perth Mint Gold Token. Another gold-backed crypto from the Perth Mint....effectively backed by the government of Australia?
Remember, we all have to crawl before we can walk....and we've only just started crawling....
Remember, we all have to crawl before we can walk....and we've only just started crawling....