Perth Bullion Liquidation

bbfounder said:
To clarify the situation with the ATO for anyone interested or aiming to protect their business from an adverse finding please note the following.

The ATO's final claim, and basis for winding up Bullion Bourse pty ltd, was comprised of GST not collected on items where the sale prices (premiums over spot) were above a threshold that was determined to be reasonable, in reference to general bullion sales prices and in particular, the prices that plain cast bars sold for. The threshold was adjusted for product size and metal, as follows.

View attachment 45452
The vast majority of products allegedly misclassified that should have been sold with GST (rather than input taxed) were bullion coins made by the Perth Mint. Note the thresholds in the table above, and compare with retail (or for that matter wholesale) Perth Mint, or Australian bullion market pricing.

For comparison I have added the premiums as of 14/9/2020 as listed on perthmintbullion.com to the table, highlighted cells are where the listed premiums exceed the ATO advised thresholds. All coins, and 5 gram minted bar premiums exceed the thresholds advised by ATO for GST to be applicable.

Any comments welcome....
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Where did this table come from ?
None of this has been passed as law or been to court has it ?
Apart from the ATO putting it out there .
 
bbfounder said:
Any comments welcome....
Click to expand...

I understand the table in a different way and I think the labels are causing confusion.

I don’t think this table refers to Perth Mint the Company at all, it refers to Perth Mint Products sold by Perth Bullion over Spot.... let me explain.

Using 1 oz Gold as an example, we can see at the top of the table spot gold is $2,682.11 AUD.

If we look down the Gold table till we find 1 oz we can see that Perth Bullion sold a single ounce for $2,816.22 and the best price you could get for bulk 1 oz Gold was $2,789.32.

Now, if we subtract spot gold from those two figures we get,

single oz, 2,816.22 - 2,682.11 = $134.11

bulk oz 2,789.32 - 2,682.11 = $107.21

these are the exact figures we find highlighted in red under the heading referring to Perth Mint.

but these are not the premiums Perth Mint the Company is charging for its 1 oz Gold, these are the premiums Perth Bullion is charging for its 1 oz Perth Mint Products over Spot


But having said all that, how is this even possible because Perth Bullion closed ages ago and Gold was nowhere near that price?

please explain?
 
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innerpath said:
I understand the table in a different way and I think the labels are causing confusion.
I don’t think this table refers to Perth Mint the Company at all, it refers to Perth Mint Products sold by Perth Bullion over Spot.... let me explain.
Using 1 oz Gold as an example, we can see at the top of the table spot gold is $2,682.11 AUD.
If we look down the Gold table till we find 1 oz we can see that Perth Bullion sold a single ounce for $2,816.22 and the best price you could get for bulk 1 oz Gold was $2,789.32.
Now, if we subtract spot gold from those two figures we get,
single oz, 2,816.22 - 2,682.11 = $134.11
bulk oz 2,789.32 - 2,682.11 = $107.21
these are the exact figures we find highlighted in red under the heading referring to Perth Mint.
but these are not the premiums Perth Mint the Company is charging for its 1 oz Gold, these are the premiums Perth Bullion is charging for its 1 oz Perth Mint Products over Spot
But having said all that, how is this even possible because Perth Bullion closed ages ago and Gold was nowhere near that price?
please explain?
Click to expand...
The figures on the far right relate to perthmintbullion.com (aka Perth Mint). It is showing that Perth Mint is selling their coins for a higher premium than the limit that was applied in calculating what was owing by Bullion Bourse (aka Perth Bullion).

I agree the table is a bit confusing, it would have been better with just 1 or 2 lines highlighting common weights.

From the table, the ATO is using $57 over spot as a premium limit (for 1oz gold), where Perth Mint are selling their gold coins for more than $100 over spot e.g.

upload_2020-9-16_19-8-52.png
 
Bullion Baron said:
The figures on the far right relate to perthmintbullion.com (aka Perth Mint). It is showing that Perth Mint is selling their coins for a higher premium than the limit that was applied in calculating what was owing by Bullion Bourse (aka Perth Bullion).
Click to expand...

thanks, I understand it much better now
 
Bullion Bourse had the lowest premiums at the time, I was buying bars at about $25 over spot and a coin was $40 or less. there was a reason they destroyed this Business but we will never be privy to that.
Anyone know what happend to people who owned Unallocated, Did they get any PM or the value in cash or just become a unsecured creditor?
 
sctpc said:
Anyone know what happend to people who owned Unallocated, Did they get any PM or the value in cash or just become a unsecured creditor?
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I would be very interested in finding this out too. I have heard from a couple of unallocated customers affected by the liquidation with contingent losses of their investments. These appear likely total losses as the unallocated holders have been told that they are considered unsecured creditors and in my personal opinion a payout for unsecured creditors appears unlikely. If there are others please contact me here (send PM and I'll provide a relevant phone / email address) and I will see if there is anything that can be done. However, I believe this is probably old news for most affected

I believe the winding up application was defective, especially as the above was how the ATO calculated their position and also that it should have been terminated early on when apparent the company wasn't insolvent. The liquidation process itself appears to be the cause of any such losses.

I am the director of Bullion Bourse pty ltd, but am not representing the company in the above or any other matter due to the appointment of a liquidator last year. I have a personal interest in the liquidation and that extends to anyone negatively affected and make the above offer in line with my personal interest in terminating the liquidation, or obtaining compensation for losses sustained because of the liquidation, given that the winding up process was defective.
 
bbfounder said:
I would be very interested in finding this out too. I have heard from a couple of unallocated customers affected by the liquidation with contingent losses of their investments. These appear likely total losses as the unallocated holders have been told that they are considered unsecured creditors and in my personal opinion a payout for unsecured creditors appears unlikely. If there are others please contact me here (send PM and I'll provide a relevant phone / email address) and I will see if there is anything that can be done. However, I believe this is probably old news for most affected

I believe the winding up application was defective, especially as the above was how the ATO calculated their position and also that it should have been terminated early on when apparent the company wasn't insolvent. The liquidation process itself appears to be the cause of any such losses.

I am the director of Bullion Bourse pty ltd, but am not representing the company in the above or any other matter due to the appointment of a liquidator last year. I have a personal interest in the liquidation and that extends to anyone negatively affected and make the above offer in line with my personal interest in terminating the liquidation, or obtaining compensation for losses sustained because of the liquidation, given that the winding up process was defective.
Click to expand...

I was told that they became unsecured creditors also, I made a comment about it was told to Prove it as I was wrong by John Adams from As Good As Gold Australia. On another note im told if you get a invoice stating you own XX of unallocated with free storage you would still own XX in the event of liquidation and would be sold to give you the value of XX upon sale.
Then you have the Perth Mint who own no Unallocated gold as its leased from the reserve bank and stored in London so you can never own it, this was from Martin North and John Adams a couple moths ago.
 
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