Believe what you want mate dosn't bother me .So you use to work for the mint!
La,la, la panties on fire.
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Why are Silver Stackers selling silver for more than dealers?
- Thread starter Belvedere
- Start date
At $48 a coin, that would have been below spot when one of my dealer friends placed his order.
Add a minimum of $7 fabrication premium for a 2oz coin and it's now $55
Add shipping and insurance and come back and tell me with a straight face that dealers are paying $48
And I would like to see you try to source 300 from a dealer.
That's probably his entire quota.
You really don't know what you are talking about.
Like I said in a previous post, I am more than happy to take a few hundred at $59 each
Oh, so you think Perth mint pays spot price as well for their silver ......... Bahahhhahahahahahhaahahhahhaha
.That's me laughing at you by the way lol. Let's get one thing straight the reason why the Perth mint can charge dealers a lot less is they themselves don't pay spot price so they have a lot of leeway with their prices. They are buying 1000s of ounces of metal. So first your gonna tell everyone here that dealers pay retail price on their silver and gold which is the funniest thing I have ever heard and now you're implying that Perth mint pays spot price for their silver lol. Also, let's talk about insurance and postage considering I was a manager at Australia post back in the day. Most big businesses have contracts with Australia post so they get better prices on delivery and insurance. So delivery and insurance is nothing if you have a contracted agreement.Now that we have that utter stupidity out of the way lets talk eBay seen that was another point in this whole discussion. Dealers are selling 2oz kookaburra mother-baby coins on eBay now for $69 with free shipping. now you said the dealers are paying $59 a coin from the mint so let's work this out for everyone. dealer sold price $69 minus eBay and PayPal fees of 13% leave the dealer a WHOPPING -$5.61 WOA MAN THAT'S A MASSIVE PROFIT OF ZERO DOLLARS!. So by your thinking, the dealer would be bankrupt on the first day of being on eBay.Because he is making 0 dollars for his coins.
Now to end this argument. I worked at the mint for many years mate. I pressed the coins, I cut the coins out of the silver and gold sheets I also polished the coins and I knew a lot of the people who worked there before they cut most of the workers. These were people who had worked 20+ years and they got nothing to show for their loyalty and hard work. So don't come in here talking your crap about prices because you don't know a dam thing!.
Oh and one last thing. Here is the link mate! you can buy 300 at $54.89 each lol .http://www.perthmintbullion.com/au/Buy-Silver-Coins/2oz.aspx?size=19 . If your dealer friend has told you he is paying $59 a coin you are a fool for believing him and he is not your friend.End of discussion.MIC DROP!.
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Retail
Please consider that coins from Perth have limits imposed on accounts.
The 2oz coins recently available on 04 May 2020 have a limit on the day of issue which continues; you can't buy more later next day or week.
Although the Perth Web-site indicates you could buy over 300 coins, the reality is you cannot.
*The 2020 Australian Kookaburra Mother & Baby 2oz Silver Bullion Piedfort Coin has a purchase limit of 5 x tubes of 10 coins (total 50 coins)
*Single coins have a limit of 10 coins per account.
The postage fee is 17AUD per kilogram or part of, + Insurance extra.
Edit:
The 10oz coins only have a mintage of 2,500 coins with a limit of 5 coins per account.
Please consider that coins from Perth have limits imposed on accounts.
The 2oz coins recently available on 04 May 2020 have a limit on the day of issue which continues; you can't buy more later next day or week.
Although the Perth Web-site indicates you could buy over 300 coins, the reality is you cannot.
*The 2020 Australian Kookaburra Mother & Baby 2oz Silver Bullion Piedfort Coin has a purchase limit of 5 x tubes of 10 coins (total 50 coins)
*Single coins have a limit of 10 coins per account.
The postage fee is 17AUD per kilogram or part of, + Insurance extra.
Edit:
The 10oz coins only have a mintage of 2,500 coins with a limit of 5 coins per account.
The very low limits that you're talking about are only enforced on standard consumers . The limits for dealers are a lot higher . But dealers do have a limit as well . The postage fees for big businesses and insurance are a lot lower than that . For average consumer yes its around about 17AUD.If you're a big business you need a contract in place especially if you shipping out a lot of silver and gold to customers this is where bullion dealers save a lot of money on postage and insurance with a contract because they are constantly doing business with aus post. But yes for very low mintage coins say 2,500 there are very low limits even for dealers.
I think the reason I rarely participate in discussions here is because there are so many "experts" on this forum
Everyone here seems to know more than I do and if I have the temerity to suggest some of their "facts" may be wrong, I end up wasting a lot of time justifying my position.
If anyone actually knows for a fact and is not just guessing that the silver/gold granules and planchets to make bars and coins cost less than spot, please share this information with all of us.
Only an idiot would believe that Bullion dealers paid retail for all their gold and silver products, however if Perth Mint happened to charge retail prices for one particular product during a time of bullion shortages, is that so hard to believe?
I did however make a mistake, after checking the delivered wholesale price, it was actually $57.80 per unit based on a 300 coin allocation
Also if any mid-tier dealer wants to confirm that they actually got an allocation of more than 300 coins, let us all know. I very much doubt it as my friend tried very hard to increase his allocation.
As a former bullion dealer, ebay is actually quite useful for building up a customer base!
Selling items at cost after paying ebay and paypal fees is one way I managed to increase my feedback and customers base quickly.
I was never desperate enough for customers to sell any bullion below my cost price however I do know at least two people on this forum who has gone down this route selling small ticket items at a small loss after fees to build up feedback quickly.
Any bullion dealer on ebay with an ounce of brains will then leverage that sale by placing a business card inside the parcel when they ship. At least 50% of these ebay customers will eventually bypass ebay and buy off your website.
I am into information gathering; not really interested in scoring points - well maybe a little. If you have facts share it; if you have theories, don't assume it as facts; check it out first and then report it!
Everyone here seems to know more than I do and if I have the temerity to suggest some of their "facts" may be wrong, I end up wasting a lot of time justifying my position.
If anyone actually knows for a fact and is not just guessing that the silver/gold granules and planchets to make bars and coins cost less than spot, please share this information with all of us.
Only an idiot would believe that Bullion dealers paid retail for all their gold and silver products, however if Perth Mint happened to charge retail prices for one particular product during a time of bullion shortages, is that so hard to believe?
I did however make a mistake, after checking the delivered wholesale price, it was actually $57.80 per unit based on a 300 coin allocation
Also if any mid-tier dealer wants to confirm that they actually got an allocation of more than 300 coins, let us all know. I very much doubt it as my friend tried very hard to increase his allocation.
As a former bullion dealer, ebay is actually quite useful for building up a customer base!
Selling items at cost after paying ebay and paypal fees is one way I managed to increase my feedback and customers base quickly.
I was never desperate enough for customers to sell any bullion below my cost price however I do know at least two people on this forum who has gone down this route selling small ticket items at a small loss after fees to build up feedback quickly.
Any bullion dealer on ebay with an ounce of brains will then leverage that sale by placing a business card inside the parcel when they ship. At least 50% of these ebay customers will eventually bypass ebay and buy off your website.
I am into information gathering; not really interested in scoring points - well maybe a little. If you have facts share it; if you have theories, don't assume it as facts; check it out first and then report it!
I think the reason you don't participate in big discussions because you don't know what you're talking about . I'm not reading another wall of text from you I read your last wall of text you made. I don't have time to argue with someone who does not know how the business works. Sorry mate but I wasted enough time with you already . When you work at the mint and get educated on this matter ill talk to you but until then I'm just not interested . I mean who in their right mind would assume dealers pay retail .
Mel, please tell the forum what dealers pay for the 2oz and 10oz 2020 Australian Kookaburra Mother & Baby 2oz Silver Bullion Piedfort Coin.
Please provide details of dealer delivery fees, for example Perth to Sydney.
Where did you get the coin limit figures for retail limits for the coins sold on Perth's Bullion site?
Thanks.
Most of the information you have requested I believe would be commercial in confidence. Best to ring your local dealer and ask them. I believe AEL is in Sydney and has dealt with Simon he may provide you the information you require. I am unsure where Holdfast operates however please speak with your Perth mint dealer.
I believe Mel The dealers don’t pay retail. Coin allocations are negotiable. For example after being unable to purchase any lunar horses from my coin dealer ( Simon had sold all his allocationI) I meet with the South African boss and arranged a group buy for over 1000 at a great discount when the price was $35 or more thru the dealers or on the forum. Possibly some of the long term members may remember and can confirm, one was from QLD (Horrie?) ,one from TAS ? and a local collector.
Never the less sometimes forum debates can get heated. Best to count to 10 , relax and enjoy the thing we have in common.
Exactly if you build relationships with the right people you can get anything for the right price. You would have to be silly to think these dealers are paying what everyone else is otherwise their business wouldn't operate period. I can't even believe we are debating this . In any business across the world, retail business owners don't pay standard price, and its the same for bullion dealers. How are they able to make money if they buy the coins at the price Perth mint sells them to consumers for cmon?.
I don't know every bullion dealers contract with the Perth mint. But I do know how they operate and if you believe they are paying consumer price you have no idea what you're on about period. The price you pay for a bullion coin is a hell of a lot more than what these dealers buy them for and they all have different deals. I just can't believe we are even debating this how could you possibly think the dealers are paying close to what you are? .Have you ever studied how business works? .I mean I'm not sure how old you are or anything like that but this should not even be being debated I mean I'm actually shocked that were are arguing over this. Ask yourself this and be honest. Do you honestly think you pay what dealers pay for Perth mint coins?. If you say yes I'm not gonna reply to you anymore either. because it means there are two people in this forum who live in fairyland.
mel, thanks for contributing.
No problem. All i ask is that you and a few others who are not up to date with how business is run these days especially the bullion business don't question people who have been in the business for a long time. I once thought everyone was getting a fair go as well and I would love it to be the case but unfortunately, we live in a day and age where if you have a lot of money or you know the guys at the top really well. You can get deals that would shock this forum and anger a lot of people. I sell some gold and silver and would love to make a decent profit from it but unfortunately i only make a very small profit. But i know for certain if I had a lot of money I wouldn't be paying anywhere near the amount I pay for my coins at the Perth mint . Because money talks at the end of the day and that's the way the world has always worked. Good day.
The 2 oz "Mother and Baby" discussion has been interesting and it is fare to say there is only one of 2 answers.
1. All in the dealers are buying them for $58 or $59 and then they are deliberately selling them at a loss on ebay to drum up a customer support base.
or
2. The dealers are buying their stocks at a cheaper rate and then can easily sell them on ebay at a profit.
Both cases made are plausible.
I can tell you this for a fact. If I bought a coin for $59 I would need to resell this coin at $75 on ebay and post by standard mail to make $3. If they wanted registered post I would have to charge $79, just to make $3.
Pretty hard way to make abuck 3 bucks I think.
EDIT: Hooray, I just clocked 900 posts.
1. All in the dealers are buying them for $58 or $59 and then they are deliberately selling them at a loss on ebay to drum up a customer support base.
or
2. The dealers are buying their stocks at a cheaper rate and then can easily sell them on ebay at a profit.
Both cases made are plausible.
I can tell you this for a fact. If I bought a coin for $59 I would need to resell this coin at $75 on ebay and post by standard mail to make $3. If they wanted registered post I would have to charge $79, just to make $3.
Pretty hard way to make a
EDIT: Hooray, I just clocked 900 posts.
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The 2 oz "Mother and Baby" discussion has been interesting and it is fare to say there is only one of 2 answers.
1. All in the dealers are buying them for $58 or $59 and then they are deliberately selling them at a loss on ebay to drum up a customer support base.
or
2. The dealers are buying their stocks at a cheaper rate and then can easily sell them on ebay at a profit.
Both cases made are plausible.
I can tell you this for a fact. If I bought a coin for $59 I would need to resell this coin at $75 on ebay and post by standard mail to make $3. If they wanted registered post I would have to charge $79, just to make $3.
Pretty hard way to make abuck3 bucks I think.
Or they could be overloaded with customers with little or no stock to sell.
Staff needs to be paid, rent needs to be paid and a myriad of ancillary services to be paid.
Why sell on ebay when you have a website and an office with customers clamoring for product.
Easy enough to offload for $63 and make a $5 profit
Btw during normal trading conditions making $3 gross profit on a coin is considered pretty good.
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Or if it was me, I would buy as many tubes as possible as the mintage is limited and it's very likely this release will sell out very quickly.
Hold it for a few months and flip for an even higher premium in the future.
Trust me they are buying their stock at a lot lower price. it's actually quite ridiculous and not really fair for the average silver stacker that wants to make a small profit from their silver. That why silver stacking is kinda dying because its hard to make a profit from it anymore. Sure you can flip some of your silver but it's even getting harder to flip now and make any gains unless you can get it in bulk for what the dealers are getting it for. If you watch shadow stacker on youtube he has explained in the past why the mints and dealers have made it hard for the average joe to flip and make a small amount of money and why he only keeps a few hundred ounces instead of the few thousand ounces he used to have. That's kinda what's wrong with this world atm is they make it hard for average wage earners to make more money or become rich in the first place.The 2 oz "Mother and Baby" discussion has been interesting and it is fare to say there is only one of 2 answers.
1. All in the dealers are buying them for $58 or $59 and then they are deliberately selling them at a loss on ebay to drum up a customer support base.
or
2. The dealers are buying their stocks at a cheaper rate and then can easily sell them on ebay at a profit.
Both cases made are plausible.
I can tell you this for a fact. If I bought a coin for $59 I would need to resell this coin at $75 on ebay and post by standard mail to make $3. If they wanted registered post I would have to charge $79, just to make $3.
Pretty hard way to make abuck3 bucks I think.
EDIT: Hooray, I just clocked 900 posts.
BS.
You just lost me.
Anyone has the same opportunity, and playing victim doesn't help you.
Sorry but if you think everyone has the same opportunity you have never dealt in real money or in real business and no I didn't lose you because I never wanted you in the first place
.Anyway your another one I'm not gonna give my time to so good luck talking to yourself. Cheers.
lol. Grow up. You can learn a few things about business, bullion and LIFE from the upstanding respected members on this forum you are rubbishing.
People sell at high prices because they can.
There are always the retards that waited to long to buy and will pay anything. No time to cry now.
There are always the retards that waited to long to buy and will pay anything. No time to cry now.