Trying to argue with people who don't believe in the "collapse"

[Jim4silver]

People dont learn anything about money in school except that you need to spend to build credit and to get more credit, the same as I was told from high school age.

Very true. I don't remember anything about entrepreneurship back when I was in school. All they taught you was to be a obedient, quiet, well-behaved zombie. Basically they were training everyone to be good "workers" and not be creative or think for yourself. I went to a public school maybe private ones are better?

I hated school from the first day of kindergarten. It always seemed like kids' jail to me. I told my parents when I got home from school that first day I wasn't going back and they couldn't make me. They said "OK, that's fine, but the truant officer will come looking for you". Back then I often watched an old TV show called the Little Rascals, and they had truant officers that would go after the kids when skipping school, so that scared me enough to go back.

Colorized version:

 

[Silver260]

People dont learn anything about money in school except that you need to spend to build credit and to get more credit, the same as I was told from high school age.

Wow, I'd forgotten about that gem of advice. And in my case it actually came from my mother. Get a small loan she said, pay it off, and that will help your credit rating for the future....... This actually turned out to be some of the best financial advice I'd ever been given

I get a $1000 credit card, and proceeded to blow the whole lot in a couple of days.... Lol.

Long story short.... I default and spend the next two years making minimum payments. And as a student, those payments hurt, and badly.

Never, ever, ever looked at an f....ing credit card ever again.

 

[Silverling]

Never, ever, ever looked at an f....ing credit card ever again.

You would have at least one wouldn't you? How do you go when you are checking into a hotel and they require a swipe of your credit card? I've tried the Visa Debit card and it was rejected by the machine and the lady says "sorry sir this is a debit card and we require a credit card." Sometimes a $200 cash deposit is acceptable but sometimes not. How do you get around that?

 

[Silver260]

You would have at least one wouldn't you? How do you go when you are checking into a hotel and they require a swipe of your credit card? I've tried the Visa Debit card and it was rejected by the machine and the lady says "sorry sir this is a debit card and we require a credit card." Sometimes a $200 cash deposit is acceptable but sometimes not. How do you get around that?

No, haven't had a Credit Card since the first experience. And neither does my better half.

Whenever I travel, I prepay for everything. Via booking.com ect. Same goes for rental cars ect. I simply pay online.

I have actually been asked before, and I simply say nope. They look at me like I'm an alien, then huddle together discussing the predicament....then always reluctantly accept.... Lol

I did have a fun experience a few years ago with a rental car. Had to cough up a $1500 deposit . But as stated, doing everything online seems to solve that.

Not sure whether they can legally refuse you, to be honest????. Once they've got your debit details they can still back charge you, if necessary.

 

[Silverling]

I did have a fun experience a few years ago with a rental car. Had to cough up a $1500 deposit . But as stated, doing everything online seems to solve that.

Not sure whether they can legally refuse you, to be honest????. Once they've got your debit details they can still back charge you, if necess

Yes I pre book it all online too. I was asked to cough up the credit card at a hotel, that was an online booking too. I didn't like that idea because once you have checked out an unscrupulous hotel could do a charge on that card for things you didn't do or consume. The alternative was the $200 deposit. I chose the card because because I thought, if they try something on I will ask the provider to do a charge back for services not received. In a 3rd world country paying by cash like in the above example could lead to problems at checkout. The local Police will never support you if they are called. Sorry, going a bit off thread now.

Back to collapse, we have had them before and we will have them again. I tend to to have a bit of everything. From silver, canned foods, cash in hand etc. What's that old saying, "Prepare for the worst and hope for the best."

 

[Jim4silver]

Credit cards, when used properly, are one of the best financial tools a person can have. The reason I say this is that many cards offer "cash back" on purchases. Even if it is only 1%-1.5% or thereabouts (some pay more on certain purchases), it is free money to the card user. I pay as many bills as I can with my credit card, then pay when I get the monthly statement. It has taken me some effort to be strict about this and not let a month pass so I can buy some extra silver, etc.

A few times when I needed extra money I have used them to obtain funds at 0% for 12+ months (plus 4% initial hit) which they've offered over the past couple of years non-stop (one time it was 18 months), and paid it all back before the time period ended. So basically I received a short term loan with only 4% interest. That is pretty good for getting quick cash when needed.

Also, if you pay all your bills on credit cards you can track everything in one place, pay one bill a month instead of several, and get cash back. This is assuming the merchant doesn't add any extra fee to you for using the card. None of my creditors charge me extra for paying by credit card. I wish I had been doing this sooner. I always assumed that utilities, insurance and such would charge extra fees, but I found out mine don't.

As a merchant, credit cards are not as good. The banks charge you a fee every time a customer uses it at your business (say 3.5% or so), and the customer can try to get a charge back later and the credit card companies like to favor the buyers in my opinion.

 

[Slimey]

I have a credit card which I don't use. It has $4 credit. The bank sends me a letter every month to tell me I have $4. It costs the bank about $1.20 per month to tell me I have $4. They have been doing that for over 10 years. I am hoping they will work out that they are going nowhere fast with me as a customer and will offer me $50 to close my account. That is only 4 years of postage (letting me know I have $4).

 

[Oddjob]

A credit card (putting aside the discussion of how one uses it / pays it down etc) has a distinct advantage over cash (in Australia) when buying a product or service to be delivered in the future.

If the product or service is not provided, as described or broken and the vendor won't refund, then under law you get your money back. Example: When Thomas Cook failed recently and if you had paid for travel with them in the future, you got your money post a call to your bank / credit card provider and completion of a stat dec...usually a 2 week process. If the person had paid cash / EFT for the same service by Thomas Cook, then they became an unsecured creditor and unlikely to see a return if any for years. Can't comment on any similar laws in other countries but the Aust law credit credit card charge backs has saved me cash over the years when a purchase has gone bung.

 

[wrcmad]

I believe 90 % of the people are clueless about the possibility (and likeliness) of a collapse.

How does it feel arguing with them?

I have pondered this question for a few days.
When you ask how it feels?..... I have no idea.
I don't argue with them. I don't know why anyone would want to?

As you state above, it is a belief. The whole stacker philosophy is a belief too. For me, this puts it on par with a religion, and you will never convert anyone to your belief by preaching.
I have argued here about the realities of such things as futures contracts, and the fallacy of COMEX inventories and JPM holdings.... nobody wants to hear the truth, laid out with facts and evidence, as it flies in the face of their belief. And their belief contributes to their sense of identity.
Non-the-less, I did my own thing and made a shit-ton from futures "paper metal", while phys stagnated and earned its holders negative returns.

But so what? Why do you care enough to let it bother you?
Who gives a shit if the guy next door lives on credit? He is probably having more fun than you, is he not?
Just because it doesn't make conservative financial sense, doesn't make it wrong. After all, he is contributing to our economy and our GDP.
Too much worrying about how others live their lives is the bread and butter of Lefties, and I have no care for that at all.

Perception is reality, and if your mates refuse to believe we are in crisis, it is probably because they currently feel they are doing well... so let them be.
I have heard for years about the imminent collapse, and can-kicking, and this could go on for years yet to come...... wasted time if it doesn't eventuate.
While you are presumptuous enough to call them dumb, unless the collapse happens, you may well be kicking yourself later for not living life to it's full potential.
I have seen too many colleagues die with the biggest account, and in my eyes, they were the losers.
Make the most of life, find a balance, relax a bit, and enjoy the ride.

Cheers.

 

[wrcmad]

Credit cards, when used properly, are one of the best financial tools a person can have.

Oh fk yeah.
I love credit cards.
I use them for everything!
I churn them depending on the airline points bonuses on offer, and do it in tandem with the missus.
Currently I average 1 million airline points per year, which is enough for 3 x round-the-world business class tickets, or 7 round-the-world economy tickets.
So I travel O/S once or twice a year for free (besides taxes), while building a bank of points for my retirement travel.
And if that doesn't convince you to take a look, then have a go at Singapore First Class Suites - Don't say your not curious.

 

[madaw1]

I have a credit card which I don't use. It has $4 credit. The bank sends me a letter every month to tell me I have $4. It costs the bank about $1.20 per month to tell me I have $4. They have been doing that for over 10 years. I am hoping they will work out that they are going nowhere fast with me as a customer and will offer me $50 to close my account. That is only 4 years of postage (letting me know I have $4).

Hmmmmm which Bank?-we know ...

 

[Ipv6Ready]

Oh fk yeah.
I love credit cards.
I use them for everything!
I churn them depending on the airline points bonuses on offer, and do it in tandem with the missus.
Currently I average 1 million airline points per year, which is enough for 3 x round-the-world business class tickets, or 7 round-the-world economy tickets.
So I travel O/S once or twice a year for free (besides taxes), while building a bank of points for my retirement travel.
And if that doesn't convince you to take a look, then have a go at Singapore First Class Suites - Don't say your not curious.

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I put everything that doesn’t charge me extra on my Amex and the rest on Visa card or debit card.

I get 700,000 points a year.
I don’t use the points for first class, just business class.

I never understood people who were against credit cards, since they are likely the ones who would benefit most from never having a balance.

in any case I thank them all for subsiding my holidays

 

[willrocks]

If and when it happens could just be the right time for you to move back to NZ

We hardly felt the 2008 GFC crisis

Any recommended locations in NZ?

 

[Ipv6Ready]

Any recommended locations in NZ?

Australia wasn’t affected by GFC much either.... a year max two, which is nothing blip in the scheme of things

People who couldn’t get paying jobs during that time was just been picky or was unwilling to relocate from smaller mining towns.

A friends son lost his job as FIFO truck driver on $150,000, for three years apparently he didn’t apply for a job offering less than $100k but only driving in Sydney, eventually he got another job in FIFO WA lol.

 

[SilverDJ]

Australia wasn’t affected by GFC much either.... a year max two, which is nothing blip in the scheme of things

The GFC was, and will be again in the next one, only a problem if you lose your job and can't get another one.
The best preparation for any GFC type event is to diversify your income sources and/or have your own business or alternative skills you can utilise.

 

[Jislizard]

I have a credit card which I don't use. It has $4 credit. The bank sends me a letter every month to tell me I have $4. It costs the bank about $1.20 per month to tell me I have $4. They have been doing that for over 10 years. I am hoping they will work out that they are going nowhere fast with me as a customer and will offer me $50 to close my account. That is only 4 years of postage (letting me know I have $4).

Same sort of thing, I have a Marbles Credit Card account with £1+ on it. As I was leaving the United Kingdom I shut down all my credit card accounts. They wouldn't send me a cheque for £1, they wouldn't donate it to charity either, their solution, spend more than £1 on the card and then next month pay it all off in full. I told them that I was closing the account because I was moving to Australia. For the next 5 years or so my Mum received monthly statements in the mail. Then the company was bought out by a different provider and they continued to send my Mum statements. She later sold the house and I have no idea who is getting my statements now. We asked them to close the account on several occasions but they failed! My main worry is that the company will come up with new terms and conditions that will start charging me to have the account and I will eventually end up with a massive debt. Either that or someone will steal my identity and reactivate the account and go on a spending spree.

But as to credit cards, I spent 1991 to 2001 servicing interest and debts on about 6 different credit cards as well as a car loan and overdraft facility costs. I basically saved nothing for 10 years, living from paycheque to paycheque (and the paycheques were pretty good) and often borrowing money from my little sister in the weeks I didn't get paid.

My (now wife) was horrified at me being about $25,000 equivalent in debt, and more horrified that I didn't care or seem to be doing anything about it. Within a couple of years we were debt free and moved to Australia, no more going out for drinks with friends in London and then staying up drunk on eBay buying rubbish.

Got to Australia and we now have one credit card between us which is automatically paid in full every month. We don't have to worry about forgetting to pay it off, or work out how much we need to pay, just automatically leaves the account. We get free travel insurance abroad which really helped when I dinged the hire car, and although we don't collect air miles, every now and then we get a $100 Coles voucher in the post. Not much but we never pay interest, have better online security and get a small discount.

Credit Cards aren't the problem, people are the problem and it is a really expensive lesson to learn, but you never forget it!

 

[Silverman99]

Any recommended locations in NZ?

Do you like the rush of the city or the quiet country towns near a beach or inland

 

[willrocks]

Do you like the rush of the city or the quiet country towns near a beach or inland

I like quiet country town, but not too far out of town. Preferably near the water.

 

[dollars]

I never understood people who were against credit cards, since they are likely the ones who would benefit most from never having a balance.

I am probably in that boat.

I believe that the credit instrument you complete on your application is fully drawn when your account is opened regardless of the ongoing balance provided monthly! This could be the reason most long term credit card holders received multiple pre approved increases and other credit card offers.

I had an interesting conversation with one of my previous bank branch managers many years ago who confirmed during a mortgage application. In summary the conversation went something like do you have credit card/s me yes 2 him lets consider that they are fully drawn. Me. No as you can see My account has funds to pay off the balance and if you look at my statements the balance is paid off every month religiously I like to collect the frequent flier points and one gives free travel insurance. Him. I will check the accounts and took the details of the cards. About a week later he got back to me those accounts were fully drawn!

Just edited to clarify the bank wasn’t the credit card provider. At that time my employer had opened a cred it union andseveral global companies had given great introductory offers to employees for credit cards Citibank and America express. Our new ceo at that time was an American?

Has anyone else had the credit card experience with their bank or other credit provider?

 

[Silver260]

Yea, they always consider them fully drawn. Because, technically, you could walk out of the loan meeting and go spend the whole balance. If you see what I mean.