White Spots

S

Silver Bullion Boy

New Member
Hi Folks, just checked my 3 sheets of 2011 silver 1oz Panda's last night and out of 90 coins 13 have white spots. I am not happy about this and I Think it's a really poor show from the Chinese mint. I can not return these coins as they were purchase as bullion. I have carefully washed these coins with my own process and it has significantly reduced the spots on them except one of them. This has really amazed me as I thought these white spots stayed the same size etc and that was that, but this is not the case by the looks of things! All my coins are now going through my process to was any chemical film and factory dust etc off them before anything can happen to the non spotted ones! I am hearing that folk will not pay much for spotted Panda's and if what I have seen so far there must be many thousands out there that have spotted, going by the percentage that I got out of 90 coins! Would like to hear your opinions on this!

Cheers, Silver Bullion Boy
 
I would urge caution against washing the coins yourself... unless you have a special technique like what the fellas at NCS do.

Yeah, 13 out of 90 spotted Pandas is common unfortunately... But as you said, these are sold as bullion coins.

On the bright side of things, spotted Pandas make the flawless Pandas even more valuable :)
 
Actually had a chat with NCS about the spotting and stains commonly found on pandas the other day.

For some history, I've had a very hard time with MS69 post-2007 pandas eventually developing terrible spotting across the mirrored finishes and/or full on yellowish-white milk stains all along the outer frosted edge and rims. I've sent all of these in to NGC for 'appearance review'. All were determined not to meet the grade given and I have been compensated.

But back to the point, I was told that this is from the chemicals/solutions they use on the dies/planchets during the minting process. This solution ends up pressed into the metal and will eventually work its way to the surface over time. Unfortunately, there is nothing NCS can do to remove this or prevent it as it is not something that can simply be removed from the surface of the coin.

If these spots/stains make it to the surface post-encapsulation, it is highly likely that the coin is no longer deserving of the grade it received unless it is very minimal.

As for capsule-only coins, the issue is likely to arise sooner to the effected coins because of the greater environmental exposure.

From my experience so far, it seems this has become a greater problem as the mintage figures increase.
 
Silver Bullion Boy said:
Hi Yennus, yes, I have a special technique and it does not harm the coins, what is your opinion on the spotted ones concerning value?
Click to expand...

For capsule-only on such a high mintage coin it is likely to effect the price very little. For the graded ones, it will have a bigger impact.
 
Thanks for the info lads, and it sure is a problem especially for the graded ones! So there really is no cure for this spotting problem then, just your pot luck what coins will spot over time! I will not bother to wash the rest of my coins then, as with what your saying the chemical that is causing this was pressed into the metal and if this has happened to whatever coin then it will make its way out over thime! This is very dissapointing but there you go!
 
heyimderrick said:
Actually had a chat with NCS about the spotting and stains commonly found on pandas the other day.

For some history, I've had a very hard time with MS69 post-2007 pandas eventually developing terrible spotting across the mirrored finishes and/or full on yellowish-white milk stains all along the outer frosted edge and rims. I've sent all of these in to NGC for 'appearance review'. All were determined not to meet the grade given and I have been compensated.

But back to the point, I was told that this is from the chemicals/solutions they use on the dies/planchets during the minting process. This solution ends up pressed into the metal and will eventually work its way to the surface over time. Unfortunately, there is nothing NCS can do to remove this or prevent it as it is not something that can simply be removed from the surface of the coin.

If these spots/stains make it to the surface post-encapsulation, it is highly likely that the coin is no longer deserving of the grade it received unless it is very minimal.
Click to expand...
heyimderrick,
Are you saying NGC will make us whole if we own one of their slabbed coins that develop these spots?
I have an MS 70 Panda that has gone bad & am more than a little concerned at this point.
Thank you!
 
Catseye said:
heyimderrick said:
Actually had a chat with NCS about the spotting and stains commonly found on pandas the other day.

For some history, I've had a very hard time with MS69 post-2007 pandas eventually developing terrible spotting across the mirrored finishes and/or full on yellowish-white milk stains all along the outer frosted edge and rims. I've sent all of these in to NGC for 'appearance review'. All were determined not to meet the grade given and I have been compensated.

But back to the point, I was told that this is from the chemicals/solutions they use on the dies/planchets during the minting process. This solution ends up pressed into the metal and will eventually work its way to the surface over time. Unfortunately, there is nothing NCS can do to remove this or prevent it as it is not something that can simply be removed from the surface of the coin.

If these spots/stains make it to the surface post-encapsulation, it is highly likely that the coin is no longer deserving of the grade it received unless it is very minimal.
Click to expand...
heyimderrick,
Are you saying NGC will make us whole if we own one of their slabbed coins that develop these spots?
I have an MS 70 Panda that has gone bad & am more than a little concerned at this point.
Thank you!
Click to expand...

If they determine that the issue has developed while in the NGC holder, yes. It falls under their written guarantee.

See link:
http://www.ngccoin.com/services/writtenguarantee.asp
 
Nearly half of my Maples have milk spots, I'd be stoked with a 10% ratio. 2011 Pandas are bullion coins with large numbers, expect more of the same with the 2012 issues I guess.

Don't wash your coins!
 
I have been upset lately finding white spots too mainly on the mirror faces on pandas and on canadian coins. I guess the main problem I have is getting coins at a high premium with these spots , the regular maples I am not that concerned about but when paying 30-40% over spot on pandas and the canadian wildlife seriesit is a real bummer and I would have been better off just buying cheap bars or rounds. It is interesting to learn what causes them, one would think the mints would try to remedy the solution since I have many silver coins from other places some 10-20-30 years old with no problem with white spots. It is espescially disturbing with the pandas since the premiums are so high and it sounds like the spots can develope in time so I think people may get turned of of the newer ones unless they can remedy the situation espescially if they are minting 8 million. has anyone seen the dreaded white spots on proofs or perth mint coins? I have not, the only thing I have seen is sometimes a kind of blurry film which I imagine is also from a cleaning solution or something. Thanks for all the valuble imput here, I think for collectors paying high premiums this is serius stuff.
 
25Grizzlies said:
Nearly half of my Maples have milk spots, I'd be stoked with a 10% ratio. 2011 Pandas are bullion coins with large numbers, expect more of the same with the 2012 issues I guess.

Don't wash your coins!
Click to expand...
I've noticed exactly the same thing with my Canadian coins. About 1/3 of my maples are ugly with discolourations. Fortunately, I view them purely as bullion coins and not for any numismatic value. Irrespective, its a shame that they are other than optimal.
 
The Proof pandas I own are pretty much spot free, I say pretty much because a couple do have very small issues, but they're minor and NCS should conquer these manufacturing residues. I am concerned about the already slabbed ones I own not conserved developing spots... But guess it pays not too worry. To answer your question, most proof pandas I've seen are stunners and the majority are problem free, many grade at 69.
 
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