PAMP bars as an investment.

S

smokymcpot

New Member
Could PAMP bar's be used as an investment? As you know the premium is quite high but one day in the future when silver's prices shoot pass the roof, wouldn't you want something sealed up with a serial number? :)

I'm sure you'd prefer a 1oz gold bar by PAMP compared to some in airtight.

What's your opinion? :)
 
Nah, not really. I think maples, ASE's phil harmonics, etc are recognizable enough that you can get those and sell them fairly reliable when the time comes.

Gold pamps dont' have as much as a markup, but the silver ones are a bit pricey. Maybe a few for the collection, but not stack worthy.
 
Pamp bars are nice, but do they justify the premium asked?
Put a pamp, ase and maple on the counter at a bullion dealer, how much extra do you think you will get for the pamp?
In the end its just another ounce of silver - even if it is cool, I do like it.
 
Screw paying more for pamp gold bars with no numismatic value and their silver bars are nice but certainly not worth paying extra for the name..Perth mint is recognized world wide.

... The serial number on Pamps mean nothing
 
The serial numbers are a drawback. Strangely enough they seem to encourage counterfeiting.

The recent 10 oz gold PAMP fakes are a great example of this.
 
smokymcpot said:
What's your opinion? :)
Click to expand...

My opinion is that if you're in this for the long haul you'll do better banking on raw ounces over premium.


The breakdown example :

You have enough cash today at say $35 spot to buy 10 ounces of silver at spot.

10oz non-premium silver @ $35 Spot = $350 value

For a premium, you can buy say 8 ounces of premium for the same dollars

8oz premium silver @ $35 spot = $350 value.

Now you wait 5 years... and spot reaches $100 :

10oz non-premium silver @ $100 spot = $1000 spot value

8oz premium silver @ $100 spot = $800 spot value


Your 8oz of premium silver now needs to chase $200 in premiums just to maintain level footing with basic silver.

The higher spot goes, the bigger the gap you need to breach.

Say spot is $500 - you're chasing $1000 extra in premiums for your 8oz of silver (or over $100 premium per bar/coin) just to break even with basic Ag.


So my opinion is to keep your stacking options as simple as you can - 'high premium' silver should never be the core of your stack unless you're a big player and can afford to dabble.

As long as your silver is easily identifiable and verifiable by purity, weight and mint mark for verification I say go for the CHEAPEST silver option possible and trade purely on the spot movements long term.

If you want PAMP because you like the packaging and minting, by all means and more power to you - just do it in moderation.

But if we ever get to a point where silver becomes mainstream again, I get the real impression that silver will be silver will be silver and you'll kick yourself that you denied your stack an extra 20% in weight simply to chase a more 'pretty' product.

That's why the core of my stack is still plain bullion bars, kooks and fractional silver (1966s & pre-decimal).
 
auspm said:
smokymcpot said:
What's your opinion? :)
Click to expand...

My opinion is that if you're in this for the long haul you'll do better banking on raw ounces over premium.


The breakdown example :

You have enough cash today at say $35 spot to buy 10 ounces of silver at spot.

10oz non-premium silver @ $35 Spot = $350 value

For a premium, you can buy say 8 ounces of premium for the same dollars

8oz premium silver @ $35 spot = $350 value.

Now you wait 5 years... and spot reaches $100 :

10oz non-premium silver @ $100 spot = $1000 spot value

8oz premium silver @ $100 spot = $800 spot value


Your 8oz of premium silver now needs to chase $200 in premiums just to maintain level footing with basic silver.

The higher spot goes, the bigger the gap you need to breach.

Say spot is $500 - you're chasing $1000 extra in premiums for your 8oz of silver (or over $100 premium per bar/coin) just to break even with basic Ag.


So my opinion is to keep your stacking options as simple as you can - 'high premium' silver should never be the core of your stack unless you're a big player and can afford to dabble.

As long as your silver is easily identifiable and verifiable by purity, weight and mint mark for verification I say go for the CHEAPEST silver option possible and trade purely on the spot movements long term.

If you want PAMP because you like the packaging and minting, by all means and more power to you - just do it in moderation.

But if we ever get to a point where silver becomes mainstream again, I get the real impression that silver will be silver will be silver and you'll kick yourself that you denied your stack an extra 20% in weight simply to chase a more 'pretty' product.

That's why the core of my stack is still plain bullion bars, kooks and fractional silver (1966s & pre-decimal).
Click to expand...

Oh okaay, thanks for the in depth opinion and answer. Appreciate it ;)
 
Perth Mint's very pretty shiny things being available at good prices (like 2013 1oz kook's for example) are why I look at PAMP's bars with 'Lady Fortuna' on them I think, "meh" and "ugh, that's way overpriced". Perth Mint just kills PAMP IMHO. :)
 
smokymcpot said:
Could PAMP bar's be used as an investment? As you know the premium is quite high but one day in the future when silver's prices shoot pass the roof, wouldn't you want something sealed up with a serial number? :)

I'm sure you'd prefer a 1oz gold bar by PAMP compared to some in airtight.

What's your opinion? :)
Click to expand...

As a rule, I don't buy PAMP because of the high premium BUT (as with ALL high premium Bullion) I always buy it when I see it
with a low premium because I know I can always flip them for a profit. If I've got them in my stack & I need liquidity, they're ALWAYS the first to go!
ALSO, have you noticed that the price of PAMP Bars doesn't seem to fluctuate with the Spot price? This leads me to think that they're NOT a wise investment choice. PAMP Silver Bars tend to sell on eBay as "Buy Now" for between $40 & $50.... Even when Silver hit $34odd an ounce, this price didn't change!!
YES, They're pretty bars & globally recognized but I even PAMP's own website states "Ideal for gifting & first time investors alike".
The ONE feature they have that's a REAL plus is their individual serial numbers but there are ALLOT of bars out on the market that offer this feature now, Johnson Matthey being the prime example.
My advice would be: If you don't mind paying a Premium (which if you're considering PAMP you don't) then go for Johnson Matthey or (if you can get them) Engelhard Bars, the former carry a lower premium than PAMP yet have a greater chance of returning a decent profit when Silver spikes & the latter will ALWAYS give you a great return (anywhere from 20-50% over Spot) on the secondary market & their price DOES fluctuate with th Spot Price.
I hope that's of SOME help! :-)
 
Locked in plastic PAMP's are prime to counterfeit. How can you test them?. Indeed PAMP has been targeted already. No surprises there unless you are brain dead. Big brands like PAMP will have more big problems to deal with if prices rise. PAMP would be No1 on the counterfeiter's 'to do list'.
 
auspm said:
The breakdown example :

You have enough cash today at say $35 spot to buy 10 ounces of silver at spot.

10oz non-premium silver @ $35 Spot = $350 value

For a premium, you can buy say 8 ounces of premium for the same dollars

8oz premium silver @ $35 spot = $350 value.

Now you wait 5 years... and spot reaches $100 :

10oz non-premium silver @ $100 spot = $1000 spot value

8oz premium silver @ $100 spot = $800 spot value
Click to expand...

Anyone here able to give a historical example? Like 5 yrs ago, Pamp was selling like and now is selling like. Compared to non-premium...
Past performance is no indication of future performance but would appreciate how has pamp performed....
 
Load of Bullion said:
Locked in plastic PAMP's are prime to counterfeit. How can you test them?. Indeed PAMP has been targeted already. No surprises there unless you are brain dead. Big brands like PAMP will have more big problems to deal with if prices rise. PAMP would be No1 on the counterfeiter's 'to do list'.
Click to expand...
I actually had this thought the other day..... In fact I may have had a couple of fake PAMP bars in the past myself! :/
I recently bought a Silver PAMP Lady Fortuna Bar that varies to the few I've had in the past...
I was looking at the pictures of the ones I've had in the past & they DON'T have their serial numbers on the bar, only on the assay card, whereas the bar I just got has the serial number on both the assay card AND the bar.
I know the bar I just got is an older version but still, there's that doubt in my mind now!
 
Load of Bullion said:
Locked in plastic PAMP's are prime to counterfeit. How can you test them?. Indeed PAMP has been targeted already. No surprises there unless you are brain dead. Big brands like PAMP will have more big problems to deal with if prices rise. PAMP would be No1 on the counterfeiter's 'to do list'.
Click to expand...

How can you test any bar properly unless you drill a hole in it? As a friendly FYI - The PAMP plastic holders have two staples which are easily removed.
 
Silverlicious said:
Load of Bullion said:
Locked in plastic PAMP's are prime to counterfeit. How can you test them?. Indeed PAMP has been targeted already. No surprises there unless you are brain dead. Big brands like PAMP will have more big problems to deal with if prices rise. PAMP would be No1 on the counterfeiter's 'to do list'.
Click to expand...

How can you test any bar properly unless you drill a hole in it? As a friendly FYI - The PAMP plastic holders have two staples which are easily removed.
Click to expand...


There are a few threads on this topic (use the search function). As one example, see GP's ultrasonic testing threads including:

http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-31093-free-ultrasonic-testing-melbourne.html
 
Silverlicious said:
Load of Bullion said:
Locked in plastic PAMP's are prime to counterfeit. How can you test them?. Indeed PAMP has been targeted already. No surprises there unless you are brain dead. Big brands like PAMP will have more big problems to deal with if prices rise. PAMP would be No1 on the counterfeiter's 'to do list'.
Click to expand...

How can you test any bar properly unless you drill a hole in it? As a friendly FYI - The PAMP plastic holders have two staples which are easily removed.
Click to expand...

I've never seen a PAMP Silver Bar with staples in the assay card.
 
FraterArgentum said:
Silverlicious said:
Load of Bullion said:
Locked in plastic PAMP's are prime to counterfeit. How can you test them?. Indeed PAMP has been targeted already. No surprises there unless you are brain dead. Big brands like PAMP will have more big problems to deal with if prices rise. PAMP would be No1 on the counterfeiter's 'to do list'.
Click to expand...

How can you test any bar properly unless you drill a hole in it? As a friendly FYI - The PAMP plastic holders have two staples which are easily removed.
Click to expand...

I've never seen a PAMP Silver Bar with staples in the assay card.
Click to expand...

I have seen a lot with staples, I think maybe it's just the larger sizes that have staples and the smaller ones don't
 
Oh okaay. Another question unrelated to PAMP's.

If I were to buy 1 or 2oz a month, it wouldn't really affect me right if the spot price goes up or down so I wouldn't need to observe the spot price and wait for the lowest.
 
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