Kilo proof coins

S

stackeract

New Member
What would you say are the kilo proof coins worth? Mouse, Ox, Tiger, Rabbit, Dragon?
I hardly ever see them available anywhere.
 
I'd take a stab at the Tiger. In pretty much all bullion and proof sizes it has the highest premiums so I'd be assuming in the 1 keg this would be the case also.
 
You know, previously when I saw that an older coin has low mintage I thought, wow, that will be a valuable collectable item, I want that.
Now when I see it, I get very upset and think hands off this coin. Once the mint starts reminting it, it will lose all its value.

Why bother collecting any Perth Mint coins when the mint deliberately destroys the collectors value of their coins? I really don't understand how they cannot understand that their numismatic branch is all about creating collectors value. Once they destroy the appeal of their numismatic coins to collectors, they can just as well close down their numismatic branch and focus entirely on bullion coins and bars. Maybe that's what they want. But if this is their goal then they should just stop minting numismatic coins, instead of destroying their loyal collectors valuable collections.
 
stackeract said:
You know, previously when I saw that an older coin has low mintage I thought, wow, that will be a valuable collectable item, I want that.
Now when I see it, I get very upset and think hands off this coin. Once the mint starts reminting it, it will lose all its value.

Why bother collecting any Perth Mint coins when the mint deliberately destroys the collectors value of their coins? I really don't understand how they cannot understand that their numismatic branch is all about creating collectors value. Once they destroy the appeal of their numismatic coins to collectors, they can just as well close down their numismatic branch and focus entirely on bullion coins and bars. Maybe that's what they want. But if this is their goal then they should just stop minting numismatic coins, instead of destroying their loyal collectors valuable collections.
Click to expand...

It seems to me to be a neo-Australian thing to only think of the now. I hope Perth Mint reads these forums so they realise they are losing credibility by doing this. I couldn't believe they reminted previous year Kookaburra's with that year on them, unbelievable!

So in the above example if the year ends and they haven't minted to capacity I believe it should stop and allow those coins to naturally find their real value.
 
Hi, am I misunderstanding something about the kilo proofs? It seems that some here are insinuating that the PM can mint kilo proofs at any time during the 12 year run. I thought that after the year of the release of a particular issue, kilo proofs would NOT be minted anymore. Of course, bullions I believe can be minted till the end of the 12 year series run so long as the quantity limit is not reached.

Am I right or wrong on this?
 
Agreed stackeract. I dont buy ANY of the Perth Mint coins now except a few bullion lunars and kooks. Not going to get caught with any of the "limited" editions that suddenly then get restruck years later because the Perth Mint watches e-bay and thinks they can cash in.

Its not just minting up to the 300k mintage years later that the Perth Mint do. Anyone remember the Redback? Coin was/is fetching like $1,000 each so whats the Perth Mint do a year or two back? Pumps out another few thousand of them as a "Russian Edition".

Quite simply, there's much better things in this world to invest in for a positive return over time than shitty Perth Mint collector coins !
 
The Mint needs to release a statement saying that they won't re-mint any numismatic coins after the year of issue. Otherwise they could re-mint absolutely every coin they ever released that has not reached their mintage limit and by doing so digging their own grave of their numismatic branch. They need to understand that people are not buying their coins because they are nice to look at. I don't have a display cabinet where I store my coins and look at them every day.

The Russian redback is different, it is clearly a different coin and can be clearly distinguished from the original redback. They also did Russian versions for the shark and the octopus and they are fetching over $200 on ebay. But remember that the original redback has not reached its mintage limit and Downies could probably authorize a remint at any time. I remember a while back when Downies announced that they "found" a few more redback and sold them for $800 or so. I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of the redback mintage is in some Downies basement.

The mint can produce as many old lunar coins as they want if they are clearly distinguishable from the original release.
 
mmissinglink said:
Hi, am I misunderstanding something about the kilo proofs? It seems that some here are insinuating that the PM can mint kilo proofs at any time during the 12 year run. I thought that after the year of the release of a particular issue, kilo proofs would NOT be minted anymore. Of course, bullions I believe can be minted till the end of the 12 year series run so long as the quantity limit is not reached.

Am I right or wrong on this?
Click to expand...

As Bullion Baron says...+1 from me.

Last year Perth released a few more 1 kilo proof Ox, so they will continue to sell them when they think fit to do so.

1kg Proof Lunar Silver Mouse Coin 2008 Limited Mintage - 500 Sold - 137

http://www.perthmint.com.au//documents/2008_Perth_Mint_Numismatic_Coin_Mintages.pdf


1kg Proof Lunar Silver Ox Coin 2009 Limited Mintage - 500 Sold - 143

http://www.perthmint.com.au//documents/2009_Perth_Mint_Numismatic_Coin_Mintages.pdf

They'll probably re-mint these unless Perth comes up with a new policy (Pending via their Blog) :rolleyes: :)

2010 - sold out
2011 - sold out
2012 - sold out
2013 - Available for $2,050AUD



For the original poster (OP)


The Kilo Proof Tiger recently sold on ebay for AUD $1,768.53 and AUD $1,963.52

The Kilo Proof Dragon has sold for in excess of $4,500 AUD

The others???????????
 
I completely agree that it is outrageous policy if the PM continuously releases proof coins past the initial year of release.

Does the public have any legit way to voice these concerns in wanting the PM to clarify and put in writing that the release of numismatic coins will be very strict and not past year of issue? Will the PM respond?

I called the PM once a few months ago and the woman I spoke with in customer service was anything but helpful. I thought maybe it's because I'm an arrogant American or something that I'm actually not.
 
mmissinglink said:
Hi, am I misunderstanding something about the kilo proofs? It seems that some here are insinuating that the PM can mint kilo proofs at any time during the 12 year run. I thought that after the year of the release of a particular issue, kilo proofs would NOT be minted anymore. Of course, bullions I believe can be minted till the end of the 12 year series run so long as the quantity limit is not reached.
Click to expand...

On the one hand, to be fair to the Perth Mint, if it says mintage was 500 but only 137 were sold, that could also mean they did actually mint the full 500 in the year of mintage but only managed to sell 137. So they might have the remaining 363 sitting at the back of the cupboard at the mint, which they have every right to sell whenever they get a chance to.
Provided they don't make more than 500, as they said they would, I don't have a problem.

Now on the other hand, the recent trick they pulled with the new 2oz proof lunar sets, where the population of lunar 2oz proofs has suddenly gone from 1000 (originally only in 3 coin sets) to 2000, is a total disgrace. That shows you cannot trust even the stated maximum mintages any more. Next year they might suddenly decide to release more previous year 2oz proofs in individual packaging, yet more in kilo sets etc.
 
Someone should start an online petition to get Perth Mint to change their mintage policies. This would be the best way to let them know of the general discontent among collectors/investors I would think.
 
trew said:
On the one hand, to be fair to the Perth Mint, if it says mintage was 500 but only 137 were sold, that could also mean they did actually mint the full 500 in the year of mintage but only managed to sell 137. So they might have the remaining 363 sitting at the back of the cupboard at the mint, which they have every right to sell whenever they get a chance to.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with this. If they have the coins and they continuously keep selling them on their website, then I have no problems with it. They do that with most of the lunar gold proof coins. But once they are gone from their website and marked as unavailable or sold out and the year has passed, then they should not produce more of them.
The ox and mouse proof coins were marked as sold out on their website (as you can check on archive.org). Reminting them later after already having declared them as sold out is not acceptable and not something a reputable company would do.
 
stackeract said:
You know, previously when I saw that an older coin has low mintage I thought, wow, that will be a valuable collectable item, I want that.
Now when I see it, I get very upset and think hands off this coin. Once the mint starts reminting it, it will lose all its value.

Why bother collecting any Perth Mint coins when the mint deliberately destroys the collectors value of their coins? I really don't understand how they cannot understand that their numismatic branch is all about creating collectors value. Once they destroy the appeal of their numismatic coins to collectors, they can just as well close down their numismatic branch and focus entirely on bullion coins and bars. Maybe that's what they want. But if this is their goal then they should just stop minting numismatic coins, instead of destroying their loyal collectors valuable collections.
Click to expand...

Im with you on-please no more reminting but think about this-how much is the mintage limit for the pandas?6million or something and still fetching a nice premium? yes the kooks got reminted but I believe they still have not reached the 300k limit. I think they are still highly collectable.They have been running for more than 20 years and probably more to come...but please perth mint,get a new designer as I just cant stand the 2013 kook.Im even considering not to get the 2013 10oz for my collection.just wouldn't fit in there with the 08,09 together:)
 
dragafem said:
Im with you on-please no more reminting but think about this-how much is the mintage limit for the pandas?6million or something and still fetching a nice premium? yes the kooks got reminted but I believe they still have not reached the 300k limit. I think they are still highly collectable.
Click to expand...

6 million mintage isn't that much when you consider the size of the target market (ie the population of China) :)
 
stackeract said:
trew said:
On the one hand, to be fair to the Perth Mint, if it says mintage was 500 but only 137 were sold, that could also mean they did actually mint the full 500 in the year of mintage but only managed to sell 137. So they might have the remaining 363 sitting at the back of the cupboard at the mint, which they have every right to sell whenever they get a chance to.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with this. If they have the coins and they continuously keep selling them on their website, then I have no problems with it. They do that with most of the lunar gold proof coins. But once they are gone from their website and marked as unavailable or sold out and the year has passed, then they should not produce more of them.
The ox and mouse proof coins were marked as sold out on their website (as you can check on archive.org). Reminting them later after already having declared them as sold out is not acceptable and not something a reputable company would do.
Click to expand...




Right, agreed. Even if they didn't have to remint after website claim of "SOLD OUT" because they minyted 500 from the get-go, it would be very bad policy to re-release the remaining x Mouse or Ox kilo proof.
 
dragafem said:
stackeract said:
You know, previously when I saw that an older coin has low mintage I thought, wow, that will be a valuable collectable item, I want that.
Now when I see it, I get very upset and think hands off this coin. Once the mint starts reminting it, it will lose all its value.

Why bother collecting any Perth Mint coins when the mint deliberately destroys the collectors value of their coins? I really don't understand how they cannot understand that their numismatic branch is all about creating collectors value. Once they destroy the appeal of their numismatic coins to collectors, they can just as well close down their numismatic branch and focus entirely on bullion coins and bars. Maybe that's what they want. But if this is their goal then they should just stop minting numismatic coins, instead of destroying their loyal collectors valuable collections.
Click to expand...

Im with you on-please no more reminting but think about this-how much is the mintage limit for the pandas?6million or something and still fetching a nice premium? yes the kooks got reminted but I believe they still have not reached the 300k limit. I think they are still highly collectable.They have been running for more than 20 years and probably more to come...but please perth mint,get a new designer as I just cant stand the 2013 kook.Im even considering not to get the 2013 10oz for my collection.just wouldn't fit in there with the 08,09 together:)
Click to expand...



For bullion I have no problem with reminting till limit is reached. It's for the numismatic coins that I feel the policy MUST be different because it is a numismatic coin and therefore the value is based on different sets of variables like the very low max mintage, the quality of the coin and its packaging, etc..
 
Scope said:
dragafem said:
Im with you on-please no more reminting but think about this-how much is the mintage limit for the pandas?6million or something and still fetching a nice premium? yes the kooks got reminted but I believe they still have not reached the 300k limit. I think they are still highly collectable.
Click to expand...

6 million mintage isn't that much when you consider the size of the target market (ie the population of China) :)
Click to expand...



Agreed....the 2011 silver American Eagle bullion is well passed 40 million minted. By any standard, this is a common, mass produced coin....and some people are paying moderate premiums on some of these???
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top