Are these milk spots on Perth Mint lunar silver coins?

M

MoralHazard

Member
Hello forum readers.

I have been reading the forum a lot in the past. However I have not participated yet on the discussion. Now I decided to do something about it!

I bought few days ago 10 sealed rolls of 2 oz Lunar horses. The price was very good at Germany as many dealers there currently sell them at discount as they try to clear their old inventories. My impression from the past on Perth Mint products has been that their quality has always been superior to other mints. This has always been my experience in the past. I have encountered a lot of different kind of silver coins and I have seen many kind of milk spots in the past. Canadian Maples almost always become covered in clear white slow. Even Chinese Panda coins accumulate tiny clear white spots on the mirror surface sometimes. But what is common is that milk spots are always clear white and they come out of nowhere (if at all). You cannot predict them.

However this time was a bit different. I noticed that on 8 out of 10 rolls I received, the queen side of the coin seem to have a spot on the queen cheek (I checked the bottom coin of the sealed rolls without opening all the rolls). This spot is not clear white spot that you can see obviously from 5 meters away as with (say) Canadian Maples. It is actually only visible when you look at the mirror surface on just right angle on a very bright lightning. I am not sure is this a milk spot or what is it.

I tried to take two sample photos of a queen side from the same coin. The spot is visible if I take a direct picture with a camera lightning enabled. If I take a picture of the coin in indirect lightning without a flashlight you do not see any spot on the queen. It was actually not easy to take a photo where you can clearly see the spot I am talking about. But fortunately I managed to do that and I am sure you can see what I am talking about.





Has anybody else came across this kind of phenomenon on Perth Mint coins? And do you think these are milk spots or something else?
 
Look like rub marks.

Perhaps the coin has moved in the capsule during transport.
 
silver kook said:
I noticed the same thing on my 2 oz Lunar Horse but it was on the otherside of the coin, on the actual horse.
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But that is interesting! All of the horse sides on my coins seem to be flawless. The spot on the queen side seems to always be about on the same place just in the middle of the coin.
 
Looks sort of similar to the mirror-polished nose of my recent 2014 10-oz Koala..

Though issue with mine covers a much larger area in the face & neck, down to some of the leaves.


If it looks like that under certain lighting angles (but looks normal otherwise), and is located towards the center of the coin, it might very well be "die fatigue."


Here's the rambling posts about mine..

http://forums.silverstackers.com/to...-up-what-happened-to-my-2014-10-oz-koala.html
 
Gatito Bandito said:
Looks sort of similar to the mirror-polished nose of my recent 2014 10-oz Koala..

Though issue with mine covers a much larger area in the face & neck, down to some of the leaves.


If it looks like that under certain lighting angles (but looks normal otherwise), and is located towards the center of the coin, it might very well be "die fatigue."


Here's the rambling posts about mine..

http://forums.silverstackers.com/to...-up-what-happened-to-my-2014-10-oz-koala.html
Click to expand...

Thanks for your comments and the link to your thread. I think we have the same phenomenon in our coins. The die fatigue would be a good explanation as it is always on the queen side of the coin and always about on the same spot.
It is kind of interesting to hear this has happened on other PM coins as well. It might tell their product quality control has went downhill if this is occurred just recently.

Though I am kind of relieved to hear it is might not be a milk spot cancer tumor after all. My greatest fear is just that it turns into white snow in few months destroying the premium of the coins That would not be funny!

I think I will just keep these and not to demand an exchange. I doubt it affects negatively on the coin value when you later sell in few years?
 
MoralHazard said:
Though I am kind of relieved to hear it is might not be a milk spot cancer tumor after all. My greatest fear is just that it turns into white snow in few months destroying the premium of the coins That would not be funny!

I think I will just keep these and not to demand an exchange. I doubt it affects negatively on the coin value when you later sell in few years?
Click to expand...

Yeah, these aren't milk-spots. Something is going on with the dies.


If you have a 5x (or greater) loupe, I would check the queen's hair near the affected cheek, under various lighting & angles. You may find some additional & even more interesting things happening there.


I didn't send mine back for an exchange. Right now it's stored away, but with the top of the capsule off (at least for now). I figure it's already "messed-up," at least in the eyes of some, so I'm aiming to speed up some natural toning, which could potentially create a pretty unique-looking coin, especially in those particular areas & as a whole. Funky Koala!

I personally enjoy cool toning (and yes, there are also some really awful-looking ones out there, too). Years down the road, somebody might even pay some good $$ for mine, much more than they would for a boring "normal" one. :D


Since you have more than one of these, if they were mine, I'd experiment with them -- try different levels of natural toning, if you wish, but also keep at least some fully encapsulated, as well, and monitor them periodically & play it by ear.
 
I've also noticed similar markings on the series 2 lunar coins, mainly 1oz.
Had to unfortunately sent them back to the seller.

There is a clear difference with the marks that you sometimes see on the queens face as apposed to a milk spot.
I believed this has been previously covered on the forum......still trying to locate the link.

As much as I hate to say it, they are milk spots.

And unless you purchased the coin direct from the Mint and still have proof of purchase, I don't like your chances of getting them replaced.

Lunar collectors are pretty fussy....and so they should, considering the premium they pay.
I believe collectors will accept slight toning but that's were they draw the line.

If your lunars coins display these marks or milk spots..... say goodbye to your premium
 
I'm not as gutzy as you. No chance in hell I'm cracking open the Perth Mint wrap on my 2 oz'ers. No way. When I go to sell, they're being sold in the wrap. If someone chooses to open that wrap...that's their choice, but if they decide to return without the wrap, when I sold the product with the wrap, ain't happening. And I'll be crystal clear when I go to sell. :-)))
 
argento said:
As much as I hate to say it, they are milk spots.
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Look at the queen's hair. See those portions of alternating concentric circles? My Koala's fur has something similar in design embedded in the coin, itself, but much smaller versions that can only be seen in the affected area & under a 5x loupe.

That is not a symptom of milk-spotting.
 
Gatito Bandito said:
argento said:
As much as I hate to say it, they are milk spots.
Click to expand...

Look at the queen's hair. See those portions of alternating concentric circles? My Koala's fur has something similar in design embedded in the coin, itself, but much smaller versions that can only be seen in the affected area & under a 5x loupe.

That is not a symptom of milk-spotting.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the Perth Mint does have issues with milk spots.......I'm still trying to locate the link with images that was previously posted on stackers.

I'm talking about milk spots that are clearly visible similar to maples and the markings are on both sides and don't need a 5 x eye loupe to see.
 
argento said:
Unfortunately, the Perth Mint does have issues with milk spots.......I'm still trying to locate the link with images that was previously posted on stackers.

I'm talking about milk spots that are clearly visible similar to maples and the markings are on both sides and don't need a 5 x eye loupe to see.
Click to expand...

One uses a loupe to get a closer look & better idea of what exactly is going on in the larger picture. It's like zooming in on the pixels that form an electronic image.

I, too, first thought my Koala simply had milk-spotting. This prompted further investigation, however, and I have concluded otherwise.


I'm not disagreeing that there are probably some PM milk-spots out there, but unfortunately (or fortunately, depending how you might look at it), Perth also apparently has some issues with die fatigue re: batches now hitting the retail end. From the looks & sounds of it, I believe the OP has some of those.


Basically a mint sometimes either accidently or intentionally tries to get maximum use of its dies (i.e., save $$) by continuing to use them past their prime. The dies can & do wear down over time from repeated use, causing some funky stuff to occur, such as letter/number/image doubling, blurring or smearing, if they aren't maintained (properly) or replaced when they should be. This is die fatigue / deterioration.

Die fatigue tends show up in localized, continuous/solid areas -- oftentimes (but not always) at or near the center of a coin. The majority of my Koala's face (excluding ears, save for the outer edges) & its neck, along with some leaves at the central bottom, are affected in one large continuous area. I can also see with the naked eye at a certain angle those small portions of concentric circles at the ear edges -- never mind all of them under a 5x loupe. I suspect the OP may find something similar along the hairline of the queen's cheek, and perhaps even the earring, under magnification & proper lighting/angles.. which won't be found in the "normal" areas.


Do a little digging, and you'll find that there are all kinds of minting issues/problems throughout history & throughout the world, aside from just milk-spots, which occur for all sorts of different reasons. Some people even collect certain ones, and perhaps even pay extra money for them. Go figure.

In the minting process, humans are involved, and machines are involved -- both of which can & do goof up & wear down sometimes. The result is a less-than-perfect coin. Though again, people sometimes pay up good money for less-than-perfect coins. Not saying that this will be the case with any of these Perths someday, but minting mistakes aren't exactly the end of the world, either.


Obviously up to the purchaser in each case to decide what to do with them, should they ever receive one or more. And I wouldn't fault them for whatever they do, as it's their decision.

They should keep in mind, though, that they might be hanging onto a coin that potentially won't get much more than spot one day -- or potentially be giving up a coin that could one day be sold a good deal higher than its error-free brethren. :)
 
Yep Milk spots...I've had similar problem on the lunar Goat. I'm not buying any Perth Mint stuff for the time being until this problem is resolved. Perth Mint are selling over priced JUNK of late.
 
whatever you do, dont try to rub it off. did that with mine the other day and there are now a multitude of fine scratches all over the queen.
 
It's all part and parcel of the coin and having it in a plastic capsule which might also mark it further over time. Just enjoy what you've got. I'm doing the same as it would drive me up the wall if I was to examine each coin for imperfections.
 
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