My guess is that you are more optimistic than I am, but the point is well taken. The wild card is this social media thing, and what it could morph into. Another French Revolution, on a global scale, and the Fat Cats will not be able to prop up their own head, let alone national economies. It seems no great changes will occur, because, that's the way it has been. So often I read "Every fiat system has failed.', like that is worthy of the nightly news. I have a news flash! Every monetary system has failed!!! Every single one, because every government has failed, every single one. Do away with fiat? -heck, we need to do away with money, and government, if we don't want them to fail.
He meant discussion is welcomed concerning any point in his post. He comes from a background of many, many types of forums, with a strong background of debate, on a variety of subjects. Also a strong background of critical thinking. Here is my premise: In a 'collapse of the financial structure', society will revert backward, to a point where gold is for kings, silver for gentry, and the peasants barter. I find little enjoyment in a room full of people agreeing with each other, compared to a friendly discussion of differing opinions. 'Argument" to me, is a logical discussion of facts and opinions, and not to be avoided. I do not need to be "right", as much as I need to be engaged in discussion. I am not well suited to this forum, I am trying to adapt. Disagreeing with ideas is not the same as not liking someone, or even saying they 'must be' incorrect, as I see it. I respect you, and your views, even if we disagree. The reverse may not be true, won't bother me.
I'm only human. If I have a choice, I'll take being liked. I have had many supervisors I respected, did not like, and I would not want to be any of them. Had a few that deserved no respect professionally, but wonderful, wonderful people. Odd combination, but it happens.
little story: I was doing it tough one weekend few years back went to my local coin guy and swapped something cant remember what it was and all he had to pay me with was decimal paper notes took a 50 to coles bought some supplies gave the kid at the checkout the paper 50 he called his supervisor, this person is trying to pay me with some cheque looking paper thing, they took it lucky for me went back on the sunday to get something else and they wouldn't take the paper note. so I went to maccas and went through drive through and they flat out would not take it telling me it wasn't money, ram website explains it is still legal tender so I told them they have to take it as it is still legal tender, they refused and told me they would call the police if I didn't leave. it was a fun experiment and found no one would take it only the one off at coles. yeah yeah I know take it too the bank but my point is that piece of paper had no buying power at all that weekend. it wasn't worth the paper it was printed on. don't believe me go try it out so that's how in the balance and brainwashed people are in to their thinking about that stuff with numbers printed on it, it scared me really how fragile the whole setup is.
BeHereNow, One thing I agree with you on is that trust will be a rare commodity if ever there is a SHTF scenario. But there's some problems with your other thinking....or you are not being clear. And I'm not sure you were responding in part to my comment about shiney silver metal (.999 silver bars). First of all, Babyboomers as a whole DO NOT know the difference between silver dimes and clad dimes as just one example. You may think most do, but most don't...certainly not in the major US cities that I've been to and I've been to many. Besides, the further down the road this hypothetical SHTF scenario goes down, the farther removed the average Babyboomer will be from having even one experience holding a silver quarter as opposed to a clad quarter. Next, there's no guarantee at all that the old timers will be somehow magically reunited with a family that has put them years ago into a retirement home or community....this retirement home or community is their new family. There will be no magical reuniting of the old people who may actually know a thing or two about silver coins and the current run-of-the- mill gal or guy on the street who doesn't. Finally, in a SHTF scenario if there are coffee shops still running and if you will be handing an 8th grader behind the counter a 90% silver dime and a clad dime....guess what....that cashier will treat both as 10 cents. So any premium you paid for the silver dime is a total waste of your fiat cash in times like that. A much better bet is to buy the lowest premium .999 blobs (bars) you can find and if ever a SHTF scenario comes upon your grandchildren then it will be more that you can leave for them because you are paying less premium than you would on junk silver in most cases (per ounce of silver not per volume of product). .
if you are talking to me yeah I was reading posts and my little adventure came to mind. yeah trust, uneducated, ignorant and brainwashed people will be what makes silver harder to use, gold easier, maybe diamonds will be easier to use most people know about them but then there's lots of things that can be passed as diamonds. guess no one will really know what's going to happen I guess my point is I was trying to spend legal tender as issued by our Gov. and no one would take it it was scary! I had so called real money in my hand and it was worthless.
No one does know with certainty...that's correct. The more educated and rational our guesses are, the better equipped we may be for the most likely plausible outcomes as well as the most likely timing of such hypothetical scenarios. .
You will be able to get Perth mint proof coins from coin shops at spot plus regular bullion mark up like the last run up to 20 in late 2007.. Stack bullion or proof if sellers sell near spot (which happens regularly)
I am expecting a situation where all bullion dealers will have to document ALL transactions, with proof of purchase and sale etc. Walk in with an ASE, and you will have to prove purchase cost and declare profits, pay tax, etc. For me, never!
^ Old Codger, was it ever like that before or would it be an entirely new way to track pm purchases? .
Thanks for the reply. I'm a country boy. My stomping grounds varies from rural to very rural - (think 'Deliverance'). I think those over 30 know old money can be silver. A lot of the junk silver being taken to my local dealer is by relatives of the one who hoarded their pocket change. That is based on limited observations and hearing discussions across the counter. I could be wrong. Anyone going to live auctions often sees old silver coins auctioned off for much more than face value. But I may be giving them too much credit, I agree. Even so, if pre 1965 silver - and bullion - becomes 'money', the word will spread fast. It seems to me that understanding the value of familiar coinage is a whole lot easier than all of the many forms of bullion, with many not even looking like coinage. Someone turning 60 this year is a baby boomer. Not all of us are in nursing homes, or on our way. Some articles I have read said Some baby boomer will be 67 in 2031. For those in nursing homes, I agree - currently little contact. I am a baby boomer, and my father-in-law is in a nursing home. Now there is an old timer. I realize I may be an old timer, but when my grandkids see me on the motorcycle, they don't think I'm riding to the nursing home. Those of us in the community still have daily contact with the next generation, even if separated by several states. I would say you underestimate the influence we [would have] on the younger generations, with a restructuring of family units after this theoretical SHTF. What I see is nursing home staff quitting after several weeks or months of no pay. That's what I would do, go home and take care of my own, not someone else's. Let your folks starve to death or bring them home to be with you. Seriously. I realize you do not see SHTF as much real possibility, so maybe you haven't played out possible events as much as I have. I would see Starbucks still open leading up to SHTF, not after. If you think the owner wouldn't educate his register people on proper payment and what is 'money', you have a low opinion of capitalists. If you think I would allow the cashier to take my 90% as clad, when company policy is to treat 90% as silver content, you don't know me, or any adult spending 'money'. If silver is 'money', I do not see how it will be easier to transact a bullion tenth, than a pre 1965 dime. But of course bullion stackers don't have tenths, so moot point. Junk dime, or 10 oz bar, you don't like the Merc dimes, so you must think the bar will be easier. It is not enough to assume 'junk-silver-will-not-be-recognized-for-what-it-is' - you also have to assume that bullion silver WILL BE recognized for what it is. Even if you get past the first one, all of the reasons that say junk will not be recognized, apply to bullion. Give that eighth grader a silver bar and see the reaction. My local shop does not stock any of the dozens and dozens forms of generic bullion. ASE, SML and junk, no problem. If you can buy locally, dirt cheap bullion or junk, dirt cheap bullion is not a bad choice, but far from a no brainer. Junk coinage has value beyond the silver content, unlike blobs and bars. The further you get from SHTF the more true this is. Only a prosperous society can have the luxury of coin collecting for fun or profit. Bullion stacking is interesting in an economy going downhill, but an economy on the rise will want more entertaining forms of silver. Junk silver and high premium silver are more entertaining compared to generic blobs and bars. I feel better leaving my grandkids a stack of 100 year old halves, compared to 10 year old bars, SHTF or not. You did not touch on the issue of actually using these bullion bars as 'money' after SHTF. Do the 10 ounce stackers start shaving off silver slivers, and carry a scale around? IF SHTF, there will be no ability to melt down and mint tenths or quarters. What is there is there, no new releases. Can society conduct business using the holdings of bullion silver stackers as 'money'. That seems like a big problem to me, a problem solved by junk silver. Bullion tenths may solve that problem too, but as we know, they are mostly shunned by stackers.
The shop I buy at is cash on the counter, no names, etc. If you are selling, different story. I get no receipt for my ASE, or junk. I was on my third tube before I switched to full tubes by mail order, for lower premiums. My brother-in-law is in the computer where he buys. Name, address, phone. Fancy shop, with higher premiums, even on ASE. Every transaction, ready for the NSA to ask "What's up?" I am not in that computer, by choice. I share O Cs concerns. It would take just about zero additional effort to record what is going out as well as what is coming in, at all shops. "photo ID required at every transaction - even if we saw it before" That is what the sign says at my shop, referring to him buying. I do not see proof of purchase for bullion being required as probable, but certainly possible. We know are are in real trouble if they outlaw circulating silver coinage, as was done with gold. "Turn it in now for fiat" Tracking all bullion sales in or out, much more likely, IMO.
