The Semantics of Buzz & Unbuzz

Discussion in 'General Precious Metals Discussion' started by Pendragon, Aug 16, 2020.

  1. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    So here's my 2 cents worth.

    Simple:

    "Buzz" means I'm first in line, and please consider my offer to buy your goods as you have advertised, without a quibble.​


    * "PM Sent" means I've sent a Private Message.​
    - and lets everyone know that you're mucking about at the top of the queue, so a firm clear BUZZ by someone else, with followup PM accepting the goods as offered, at the price offered, might be accepted by the seller.

    * "Unbuzz" means I'm not proceeding.​
    - and lets everyone know that your previous "Buzz" is cancelled and the seller is open to offers. But it's a pointless post since in all likelihood
    The seller will likely also post "Bump" and announce the goods are back on the market.


    * Personally I think anything typed in a sales thread past a simple "Buzz" is irrelevant and likely not in your own best interests. You're announcing on a public forum your intentions and actions concerning a trade, leaving you open to a gazumping if someone covets the deal such that they'll sweep the table.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
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  2. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    On another topic, though perhaps relevant to this thread is the issue of gazumping.

    I can see a potential for someone to "Buzz", and then someone else who is late to the party who has a burning desire for that sovereign, design or whatever, sending a private message saying "I'll buy at 10% above your advertised price, do please discard all buyer offers to this point and sell to me."

    Moral of immoral, polite or rude, ethical or not?

    Pendragon?
     
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  3. clear

    clear Well-Known Member

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    I like your explanation and it makes sense, but im getting stuck - because the advertisement/offer to sell came first ? and - when the purchaser does "the buzz" is that buzz " the acceptance" of the advertisement/offer, doesn't the buzz force the seller to sell.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
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  4. Gazza79

    Gazza79 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Its all getting to complicated o_O

    I been a member since 2013 and did not have a problem with understanding on how things worked here, call me old school but a buzz was buzz a pm was a pm and I didn't see the dreaded word unbuzz.

    But carry on its a good read.

    Now where's that gold for sale..
     
  5. Jamie watson

    Jamie watson Active Member

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    omg,so beatifully explained,thank heavens for you.a billion thumbs up.kindly j c watson.
     
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  6. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    it will depend on situations, usually there are pms from interested seller offering, we never know, they could offer better price before an actions are closed
    or just to temp buying from them
    it can be buyer/sellers

    there is no one to actually decide, except the seller, so even after a buzz on the thread, seller can review pm and decide who to sell to (the pm or take the buzz)
    seller may have more items, and sell to both parties
    there is best dress win etc
     
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  7. Jason1

    Jason1 Well-Known Member

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    There are some shit threads On SS, but this is right up the top.
    complete waste of time and server space, making something simple into something complicated and confusing for no bloody reason.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
  8. Pendragon

    Pendragon Active Member

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    This issue is at the core of our confused colleagues. Yes the advertisement comes first and yes the advertiser may use the word "I am offering X" but no it is not an offer it is an invitation to treat – an invitation to make offers.

    Why?

    To understand the nonsense of thinking that the advertisement is an offer, lets make that assumption and see where it leads us to:

    Suppose the seller puts up a thread to sell just one 2019 Silver Shield 1 oz Black Swan round @ $120

    He quickly gets ten acceptances by private message before he can withdraw his offer.

    He tells nine of them “bad luck someone else has taken the coin”. Unfortunately for him he would have formed contracts with all 10 buyers who accepted his offer and he is legally and morally required to deliver 10 coins. He will need a lot of good luck and a deep pocket to find another 9 such coins.

    Even if such a seller gets only one acceptance by buzz he can still end up with complications – what if the buyer is one bad piece of work - he will be forced into a contract with him exactly as you have observed. Why because a legally binding contract is formed with acceptance of an offer.

    These complications emanate from a fatally flawed starting assumption that the advertisement is the offer. The advertisement in Silver Stackers is not an offer – it is merely an invitation to make an offer – the buzz is the offer.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
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  9. Stoic Phoenix

    Stoic Phoenix Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  10. clear

    clear Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for taking time to clarify offer & acceptance very interesting and to you Jason 1 (and others) clearly this thread is not for you please show some respect and tolerance we have a member here who has hacked a huge question but you may not be able understand that yet.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
  11. Pendragon

    Pendragon Active Member

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    Julie,

    Most communities would consider this unethical behavior particularly if a deal has already been struck - Silver Stackers included.

    Having said that, if a new member is offering PM at a ridiculously low price and clearly does not know the market - it would not be unethical to advise to save her from being exploited.

    It is however perfectly ok to continue to make offers (buzzes) as long as the invitation is standing and you have no evidence of contract formation.

    Gazumping is unethical but legal and there is not much you can do but exhort buyers and sellers to refrain from this behavior.
     
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  12. Jason1

    Jason1 Well-Known Member

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    The only person who doesnt understand the Buzz concept is the OP.
    its a simple concept being broken down for no f'n reason.

    If Noobs followed the OP's definitions they would likely end up with bad feedback from pissing off other members in the for sale section, so its less than helpful his break down
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
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  13. Stoic Phoenix

    Stoic Phoenix Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Buzz is a system that the VAST MAJORITY of buyers & sellers on Silverstackers have used for many years with no major issue using, accepting, understanding and agreeing for the most part works very well.

    If you are in the minority where you feel the need that contract law and conventions all of a sudden need invoked perhaps this isnt the right arena for you to conduct business?

    The system used here isn't broken so the minority should stop trying to tinker with it or find "hacks" to complain about.
     
  14. shinymetal

    shinymetal Well-Known Member

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    This whole thread is confusing things.

    Buzz means I'll take it. Don't type buzz unless you are fully committed to the buy.
    A buzz can be beaten by a private message, because not everyone wants to buy publically, but the seller should update the thread so people know what has sold and what's still available as soon as they can.

    Unbuzz is a mistake noobs sometimes make and are quickly corrected.

    If you buzz something and change your mind an hour later, a potential buyer of said thing might have moved on and purchased something else, so it's unfair to the seller.

    Also with spot being on a roller coaster this goes for unscrupulous sellers as well, trying to pull out of deals after the fact because spot looks like it's going higher.
    An offer to sell is just as important as an offer to buy.
    This place works on trust and it works well.
    Leave a good thing alone.
     
  15. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  16. spannermonkey

    spannermonkey Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  17. Pendragon

    Pendragon Active Member

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    Hi @clear,

    Here is a nice example of a thread that starts a unilateral contract: A small giveback, FREEBY!:

    If you examine the text of this post you will recognise it as an offer for a unilateral contract because only one party is making a promise – the award giver, @Investing for kids. This is different from most contracts formed on Silver Stacker which are bilateral contracts – because there are two promises – typically one party promises fiat in exchange for another’s promise of precious metals.

    There are other salient features of unilateral contracts – they can only have two substantive entities the offer and the contract. The intial post by @Investing for kids starts an offer which can be locked into a contract by whoever performs what is required. Now, can you withdraw an offer for a unilateral contract as you can with the offer of a bilateral contract? – yes, but not for those that have already formed contracts by performance (not acceptance) - so @StewyD32, @selby25, @Michael Kay, @Nismo, @SilverNGold, @Horrie all the way downto @long88 have secured binding contracts with @Investing for kids. Although @Investing for kids does reserve the right to terminate the offer at the time of his choice explicitly – this is just out of politeness – he has the power to do so implicitly. In fact, even if he gave a specific expiry time for the offer, he can withdraw it earlier. The only way you can hold someone’s offer for a specific period is by forming another contract – an options contract – that is another story and I have never seen it exercised on Silver Stackers, at least publicly.

    The Silver Stacker Buzz makes no sense in a unilateral offer because the semantics of buzz is derived from the context and with reference to the terms in the invitation to treat and there is no invitation in the case of unilateral contracts. Remember the meaning of buzz in Silver Stackers is nothing more than shorthand for

    I offer to purchase the goods in question on the terms and conditions that you outlined in your invitation to treat (Advertisement)

    The buzz creates an offer for the selleran opportunity to form a contract (by accepting)

    If there is no invitation to treat, then it makes no sense to buzz .

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
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  18. Gazza79

    Gazza79 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    o_O

    Or maybe we just need a "Buy It Now" button Pendragon?
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
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  19. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    chuck in the BIN
     
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  20. Gazza79

    Gazza79 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I don't understand why people have to make things so complicated about a word that has been used and understood for ever here.

    Unbuzz thread...
     

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