SSREIT - Sabana Shari'ah Compliant Industrial REIT

Discussion in 'Stocks & Derivatives' started by petey, Dec 1, 2013.

  1. SilverSanchez

    SilverSanchez Active Member

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    We are all here toting a return to 'free market'

    How is that consistant to supporting a financial product that forbids investment in
    Wesfarmers (sells alcohol)
    Woolworths (sells alcohol, and has gaming machines)

    And also forbids freemarket and libertarianism outright.

    Doesnt make sense to me how you guys are defending it.
    The reason these products exists is because Shariah is totalitarian, but when it suits they allow 5% non-halal invesntment....

    Just on a DD level - stinks of uncertainty and double standards
     
  2. AngloSaxon

    AngloSaxon Active Member

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    This started well before the end of the Cold War. Lockerbie Pan AM bombing, Tehran embassy hostage incident, 1982 US Marine base bombing in Beirut, in fact the whole Lebanese civil war when looking at the root causes was an event of fighting over who would control a formerly Christian country, add in the constant hijackings of Western and Israeli aircraft across the Middle East in the 1970s, the Siege of Mecca being blamed on Westerners and even the Russians were fighting various muslim rebels in the Caucasus. All before the foreseeable or actual end of the Cold War. The only people painting islam in a bad light before the 1st Gulf War were the followers of islam themselves.
     
  3. Pendragon

    Pendragon Active Member

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    I taught English contract law for many years to post graduate students and had to perform a comparative analysis between English and Islamic contract law. The similarities are significant. As Islamic law is founded in the seventh century and Henry II created the Common law in the twelfth century the presumption is that the origin of English contract law is Islamic http://www.scribd.com/doc/36387774/The-Islamic-Origins-of-the-Common-Law-John-A-Makdisi . Prof John Makdsi and others have already traced the route of adoption. Many of us may not like that and our law faculties are certainly in denial but that does not change the facts of legal history. The similarity does not stop at contract law but many other areas including trust and property law, even the legal institutions that are central to the English Legal System (UK, USA and Oz) can be traced to Islamic legal institutions. The similarities in contract law are so stunning that it is difficult to find digressions in substance.

    The main substantive digression in financial transactions is that the standard Islamic sale contract requires that the object of sale must exist, be owned by the seller and be in the seller's physical or constructive possession at the time of contract formation. The only exceptions to these general constraints are forward (Salam) and manufacturing (Istisna) sales. Both have specific conditions to minimise the economic inefficiency arising from the mispricing of risk (ghrara) http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~elgamal/files/gharar.pdf. This is why most derivative contracts including most present day short selling contracts - are forbidden by Islamic financial law as they involve unnecessary risk in the delivery of the underlying asset.

    Petey and most members in this forum are smart enough to understand why these constraints might be feared by the bullion and central banks. The challenge the islamaphobes in this thread have is three-fold
    1) The Islamic origin of English contract law. {Muslim extremists are dumfounded by this fact as well}
    2) The main substantive digression of English contract law from Islamic contract law is controversial the free license to trade in risk (derivatives) has caused significant economic inefficiency
    3) Islamic commercial contract law is not just compliant with Christian, Judaic and humanist values but arguably a more authentic expression.
     
  4. tolly_67

    tolly_67 Well-Known Member

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    To Pendragon,
    How dare you interupt another train wreck posting with facts.
    You know you are just causing trouble.
    If you don't want subscribe to the evil people/evil plan mentality then it best you were on your way.
    What we want here is lashings of generalisation, heaps of hearsay, mounds of baseless opinions,oodles of loose connections spread with dollops of prejudice and a hint of bigotry and hate.
     
  5. Altima

    Altima Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Wow. Thanks for sharing Pendragon. I always take it for granted how we are surrounded by such knowledgeable people in this forum!
     
  6. glam

    glam Member

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    Well, since I live in a muslim country with my wife and have quite happily for the past 10 years, plus it was her encouragement that lead for us to come here, I think I can safely say she qualifies. Yes, we have a mixture of sharia and western law in UAE.
    And I have to say it is one of the most tolerant society I could imagine living in. It is not perfect, but far from how I am sure it will be portrayed by the you-tube / google experts here.

    Sharia law and Sharia finance are different. You can have an Sharia compliant finance product operate quite niceley within a western law system, so the two issue are different and should be discussed separately.

    Like has been already mentioned, it is equivalent of a ethical investment fund. Nothing to be afraid of and something that should be encouraged.

    Extremist Christrians or extremist rednecks are just as dangerous and damaging as extremist muslims. Like any 'book' it is open to different interpretations, and some choose to distort and twist it for their own means.


    As for the fund itself, I have not looked into it, but if it scares off a large proportion of investors purely because it is Sharia compliant, then it may well be a better investment than a non-sharia product purely since many discount it on non-financial grounds. Given a lot of the responses in this thread, you could be onto something.
     
  7. SilverSanchez

    SilverSanchez Active Member

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    There really isnt such thing as extremeist Christians, and you made up extremeist rednecks.

    Id also like to test your use of the word 'tollerant' - go do the same things that people do in our society in the west... drink, chick drinking, free speech regarding critique of the religion of ISLAM, freedom to change your convictions and not be part of ISLAM....

    You can do all that in Australia... you cant do that that in UAE.. SO maybe its NOT TOLLERANT..

    Please refrain from using cliche Political, correct doctrine, rubbish words like 'tollerant' in the future, because they are not as tollerant at all. As i said above the very FACT of shariah compliant finance is that it is restrictive and intollerant to certain forms of investing vehicles, stocks, etc, which means all other information provided above via its history is interesting but largely irrelevant.

    Westerners chose whether they want to invest like that or not (we are very tollerant, you wont go to jail, loose your hand, head or life) whereas Muslims are NOT permitted to invest freely, they are only permitted to invest in the shariah compliant areas..... does that sink into your silly heads altima and others.... totalitarian, shariah finance and banking is designed by the muslim brotherhood - for western cultures, it is not part of 'shariah' - it is 'shariah compliant finance'. Please veryone get this also through your noggins, shairiah is a totalitarian system that supports a regime. Not a tollerant free society.

    Hence NOT TOLLERANT, compared to even modern western society. And I would say western secular society is NOT TOllerant to christians or redneck (like from your post), and ISLAM is definately NOT tollerant to Christians and redneck. But yet christians and redneck are free to live move and have their being under Christian worldview...
     
  8. wrcmad

    wrcmad Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Tolerance is an attitude of mind that implies non-judgmental acceptance of different lifestyles or beliefs, whereas toleration implies putting up with something that one disapproves of.
    Under this definition, NO religion has tolerance.
    That is why I stay the turtle away from all religious shyte...... :)
     
  9. SilverSanchez

    SilverSanchez Active Member

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    "A prime example of a country where domestic violence is legal is the United Arabic Emerates where a man who upholds the Sharia, the traditional Islam law, is legally allowed to physically beat his wife and children as long as his punishments don't result in lasting scars and he tried other methods first. "

    Shariah and islam are very tollerant - it lets men do pretty much watever they like to wives, slaves and captives.

    I have a friend (Sam, his Lebanese name is too hard to pronounce let alone spell) who is a (libral) muslim from Lebenon - we would sit talk, smoke, drink coffee... we were friends. I liked him, I still like him. But i know (because he told me) that if his children act like western children, in talking back to their parents, girls drinking etc etc .... he will kill them.

    Christians and rednecks, dont kill people as a matter of law. Its illegal, we dont tollerate murder..... but Islam tollerates murder... so may be they are tollerant.

    http://www.ndjglobalnews.com/9945/1-in-3-women-is-victim-of-violence-world-wide.html


    What ive written above is irrelevant to the shariah compliant finance but it doesnt seem anyone just wants to stay on topic these days
     
  10. Altima

    Altima Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Good thing I am not like you, who seem to judge an entire religion just based on the experiences of dealing with a few people.

    And how convenient it is for you to avoid all the good points raised by the good people in this thread. Perhaps you should focus your on answering them instead of sharing with us your myopic view of the world.
     
  11. Argentum

    Argentum Active Member

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    @sanchez
    i recommend for you to take a few steps outside of oz. i dont mean uk. or us. i mean rest of the world maybe like the recent copypaper commercial says you might reach 'enwhitement'
     
  12. bron suchecki

    bron suchecki Active Member Silver Stacker

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    SilverSanchez, what exactly is your issue from a practical point of view:

    A. Perth Mint should not deal with muslims ever
    B. Perth Mint can deal with them but agreements cannot be under sharia law, must be english law
    C. Can't have your storage service certified as sharia compliant (even if we are not changing how we operate anyway)
     
  13. Byron

    Byron Guest

    Wear a large cross around your neck and have your wife parade around in a mini skirt and tell us the results.
     
  14. Byron

    Byron Guest

    All bets are off with even the friendliest of Muslims if you dare say something about their prophet or criticise aspects of their belief system.
     
  15. Byron

    Byron Guest

    Let's not forget the real life fundamentalist extremists in Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Russia and another dozen countries.
     
  16. tolly_67

    tolly_67 Well-Known Member

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    Byron.......you poor chap.......
     
  17. SilverSanchez

    SilverSanchez Active Member

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    Well lets be clear...

    Shariah compliant finance has nothing to do with Mohumad.... its an invention by the Muslim Brotherhood
    Its essentially a similar strategy to fabian socialism, or the Frankfurt School.... similar tactics, just with a financial instrument that boycotts things Islam considers evil, and will plan to destroy or take over later :D
     
  18. SilverSanchez

    SilverSanchez Active Member

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    Perhaps we should all simply agree to let this thread go through to the keeper... needless to say each person do their own DD and make their own investment choices.
     
  19. AngloSaxon

    AngloSaxon Active Member

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    Perhaps that you even acknowledge that both sides of the comparison here, muslims and Common Law faculties, both do not agree with your assertion may give you pause for thought that perhaps you're wrong? Looks more like an internet conspiracy to me finding similarities and believing links exist that do not.

    You seriously think that the Barons who petitioned the King over their grievances and created the Magna Carta were somehow influenced by islamic thought or concepts, when given the limited international links at the time the only likely knowledge of islam they had at the time were that their ancestors had fought them in the Crusades, and the coastal French and English peasants where occassionally taken by the Barbary Pirates as white slaves.
     
  20. Byron

    Byron Guest

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