[QA] What is the difference between a regular coin and a slabbed one?

Discussion in 'Modern Chinese Coins & Medallions' started by Suckering Suckertash, Apr 16, 2012.

  1. Suckering Suckertash

    Suckering Suckertash New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hey guys, this forum has been very informative for me as I am new to coins.

    I just wanted to ask everyone what the difference is between a regular coin (e.g. in a capsule) as opposed to a coin slab.
    Why is it that Pandas in coin slabs command such a high premium?

    And what exactly are the judging criterion for coin slabs. All I know is that the higher the 'MS' value the better. But what determines this value?
     
  2. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    4,837
    Likes Received:
    100
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Shanghai:Sydney
    Welcome Suckering Suckertash!

    A regular coin is the normal bullion coin that comes in the normal airtite capsule.

    A graded (NGC/PCGS) coin comes in a slab that usually cannot be opened.

    Graded coins should sell for at least $25 more than regular coins, because that's how much it usually costs to get them graded (and slabbed), not including additional postage costs (to NGC/PCGS, and then back to you).

    Judging criterion is extensive. A perfect coin (Mint State 70) is one that is flawless, but as MatrixOpals once put it, nothing really beats a good 69. 68s are also pretty good in my view.

    The graders look for obvious defects like fingering, scratching, dents, dings, etc.
     
  3. Suckering Suckertash

    Suckering Suckertash New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks a lot Yennus.

    How is it that coins that are freshly minted and uncirculated have any flaws?

    I would've thought that all uncirculated coins are in perfect conditions.

    Is it just a matter of chance that some minted coins are better than others?
     
  4. shano73

    shano73 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    South Australia
    Hi SS,

    Your best to have a look at NGC & PCGS websites, they actually go into detail about grading and the process.

    Also they will tell you how many have been graded at MS 65 -70, if your looking at Pandas, it would be best to subscribe to Peter Anthony (Pandacollector) Pandapedia, this will give you monthly updates on what recent sales have been in the US/ Chinese market.

    Also the main guys to talk to on here would be Yennus, Fishball, Musemellow, Zinger & Maggie if your chasing certain Panda coins or other chinese collectables, these guys have been most helpful since i started collecting 6mths ago and have helped me immensely in tracking down coins and great group buying action.

    PS. Almost completed >2000 MS69 standard set, just need 2000 Mirror, 2001, 2001-D & 2002 to finish, now working on <2000 set, I have the 1990 & 94 LD so far :)
     
  5. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    4,837
    Likes Received:
    100
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Shanghai:Sydney
    Hi Suckering Suckertash, you're welcome.

    Coins that are freshly minted and uncirculated often do have noticeable differences under 10x magnification to each other.

    Especially when we take into consideration, dreaded things like milkspots.

    A milkspot will now ruin your MS70 to a MS68 or even lower - even with a perfect strike.

    I think I have viewed under close scrutiny more than 1000 individual 1oz 2011 Silver Pandas, and after a while you realize that a perfect coin is hard to find. Even if uncirculated and freshly minted.
     
  6. pushingtin

    pushingtin Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Cape Town
    "A milkspot will now ruin your MS70 to a MS68 or even lower - even with a perfect strike."

    Did I not read somewhere that milkspots are NOT taken into consideration for grading?
     
  7. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    4,837
    Likes Received:
    100
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Shanghai:Sydney
    That was a bygone era... now they count against the coin.
     
  8. pushingtin

    pushingtin Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Cape Town
    What happens you have a graded coin MS70 and in a few years a milk spot or bit of toning develops.

    Can one still resell the coin described as MS70 as that is what it is slabbed as?
     
  9. low

    low New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2011
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Penang island, Malaysia
    Yes, but how much you can sell it for, or whether you can get a buyer is another question.
     
  10. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    4,837
    Likes Received:
    100
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Shanghai:Sydney
    Which begs the question... Can conservation really protect a coin from developing whitespots?

    If so, is it worth conserving your coins?
     
  11. pushingtin

    pushingtin Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Cape Town
    I actually have an MS70 2010 panda which seems to have gotten brown spots on!

    I have just contacted PCGS to find out about their guarantee.
     
  12. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    4,837
    Likes Received:
    100
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Shanghai:Sydney
    There are rumors that PCGS have a Conservation service :)
     
  13. fishball

    fishball New Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,627
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Shin Sekai Yori
    There are also rumors that PCGS hired a rouge grader who put MS64 coins into MS66 holders and flipped them for massive profits :p
     
  14. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    4,837
    Likes Received:
    100
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Shanghai:Sydney
    Wow! That's an interesting rumor!
     
  15. Lim

    Lim New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    265
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Singapore
    Does ngc conserve gold ?
    Is there a need to do so ?
     
  16. tamo42

    tamo42 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2011
    Messages:
    449
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    United States
    NCS does the conservation, and they do conserve gold. Generally speaking, gold coins have fewer problems than silver coins because gold is so much less reactive than silver. However, gold coins do benefit from the conservation process. By removing the film of residue from the minting process, the gold coins look much better. Also conservation can usually remove/prevent red copper spots.
     
  17. Thor122

    Thor122 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,466
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Valhalla
    I read the same.
    :)
     
  18. Thor122

    Thor122 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,466
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Valhalla
    I will send my first gold coin 1987y 1/10 with green residue to ncs and ngc. When i have the grade i will post here if the coin have good grading. I purchase it from a ss member actually missing in action.
     
  19. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    4,837
    Likes Received:
    100
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Shanghai:Sydney
    I think I've been wasting some Pandas... flipping the MS68s alongside my MS64-67s.

    How did this rogue trade make those massive profits? :) Tell me more :)
     
  20. fishball

    fishball New Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,627
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Shin Sekai Yori
    He bought imperial graded coins at cheap prices ~$1000 (MS64) and reslabbed them as MS66 (~$20000) and sold them.

    For imperial coins the difference in price between a 65 and 66 is massive, let alone a 66 and 64. I think the coin in question netted the rouge grader at least 5 figures in profit.

    My numbers might be a bit off (or way off), Low is better at understanding & pricing imperial coins than I am :).

    Buy:

    [​IMG]

    Sell:

    [​IMG]

    Profit!!!!!

    This one too:

    Buy:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Sell:

    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page