meh, I don't really care for stories that may or may not be true, my experience has always been positive. Their service makes me money and gives me peace of mind, I'm glad they exist. You want to play around in the world of numis and ignore their service go for it, hope it works out for ya.
One would have to be naive that to believe there are not shenanigans with TPG's and high volume customers. db23 outlines very plausible arguments that make sense to me and align with my experiences. However, I find it best not to argue with markets and there is a market for graded modern coins. I put my efforts into finding ways to prosper within the market as there are substantial opportunities to do so. Without TPG's this market and the subsequent benefits would not be available to me.
I see a whole lot of jealousy in this thread from losers who cant afford high-end coins. Stick with indian head pennies and junk silver. Maybe if those that say the premium is too high were able to afford perfect coins, your green-with-envy ink that your replies are written in wouldn't be so apparent. Thank you!
Well done for your second post :lol: :lol: :lol: Putting a bullion coin into a plastic container DOES NOT make it a numi collectable
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Somebody bought into TPG's crap. You see their marketing works! I only buy graded coins when they cost almost the same as ungraded ones. Let's someone else pay for their "work". Now old/rare pandas - could be a different cattle of fish, but modern "numis"/bullion - N**ga please!
You're so off base here it's pathetic. The OP was talking about modern grading and labels. For you to come in here and act like the big dough coin collector with your 2nd post is equally ridiculous. I'm not sure whether to laugh at you, or have sympathy.
The jealousy statement is just not worth our time. There is just no need for personal attacks. They are not adding any value to this discussion. I notice you said you only buy graded when they are almost the same price. The keyword being "almost". So, it seems you do see some value in graded coins and would be willing to pay more for them. It just becomes a question of how much. One can ignore the fact that there is a market for graded coins. One can argue that the coins are not worth more in slabs. These arguments may actually be right. What one cannot argue with is the fact that the public at this point in time is willing to pay more for slabbed modern coins. I for one choose to accept that fact and then work to become knowledgeable on the subject and subsequently use that knowledge to my benefit. So I ask myself......Do I want to be right? OR Do I want to prosper under current conditions? The answer drives my behavior.
the more I read, the more familiar to AAA rated rating item, pay for the agencies to good grade the object and walah, there is your special cryptic label printed out. gold gilded shiny special rated label. AAA
There's plenty of side topics being talked about here which is fine because I know that this sort of thing is normal in discussions. But, I think most here will agree that the authentication and grading services that reputable TPG companies perform is not only NOT the problem, but in fact a service that benefits the entire collecting community at large. My complaint is the gimmicky labels on some of these TPG slabs that I see being pushed - the types of labels that I have already noted. Does anyone agree with me that this, NOT the authentication/grading services is a problem?
I actually like the different labels. To me they just add interest and expand the collector base. Anything that differentiates something from another will drive collectibility and that is surely the motivation of the TPGs with the labels. While some do, I don't pay anymore or less for a particular label as I am more interested in the coin but they don't bother me at all.
I don't know why people pay more for different labels on their slabbed coins, you will have to ask the guys who buy the carded stock horse over the non carded one. It's perceived mintage is less, but in fact it's just the same coin with an expensive blister card. I was too under the impression that firststrike meant it was one of the first coins to be minted. But now understand that it just means it was one of the first to be graded. So is a bit cheeky to call them firststrike, a better name would have been firstgraded.
Agreed chrissilver but you are too kind with your labelling of the deceptive "first strike" labels as a bit cheeky....such terms are flat out deceptions or gimmicks designed to fool those who take everything at face value. .
Please don't characterize my ideology or suggest I will do "anything to make a buck". There is quite a big difference between doing "anything to make a buck" and selling a slabbed coin with different label. Coin grading is here. There is a market for graded coins that one can choose to participate in or not. I am promoting the fact that participating in it and becoming knowledgeable in it can be rewarding in a variety of ways.
I see the first strike type labels as a total joke , unless I am mistaken and there is someone at the mint to verify they are indeed the first coins struck, and even at that it really wouldnt matter to me. As for the colored custom labels I personally find them annoying and distracting from the coins, i would pay about $10 more for a coin in the regular label since that is what it costs to have them reslabbed without the silly colored labels, I couldnt imagine someone paying more for the custom labels or "first strike' but thats just me. The debate could go on forever about graded or not . I would agree it is pretty useless to get standard bullion such as ASEs or maples graded, but getting into modern Chinese coins espescially older ones there is a very high demand and premium on 69 and 70 coins in large part because there is getting less and less good quality coins available that are ungraded. Also the slabs offer much better preservation , most of the older Australian series 1 lunar silver coins i see that are not still in mint rolls have some toning , where as i have ngc slabbed aus. lunar coins graded years ago with no sign of toning whatsoever, it also makes it much easier to sell high premium coins with a specific grade from NGC or PCGS. As far as these companies favoring large submitters over others , this is just pure speculation with no evidence and you can make up conspiricies all day long, I have submitted many many coins with NGC and some PCGS and have for the most part felt they were fairly graded. Having said that though I have bought several coins from large companies with mass submissions that were supposed to be 70s with white spots and problems so i can see how some might come to the conclusion that they are favoring these companies but there is really no proof . As for the white spots I think some of these large companies rush to get them mass graded and the spots develop after grading since sometimes it takes some time for them to develop and in this case the "first strike" or first graded is actually a detriment instead of an enhancement. Thats my 2 cents , which is about what its worth....
You are wrong mtforpar, you certainly do come off as endorsing an "anything to make a buck" ideology. These are your own words "However, I find it best not to argue with markets". You stated NO caveats and you expressed no opposition at all to deceptive and gimmicky labels which is EXACTLY the context in which this thread was started. If the market had a demand for tolerating fake coins, according to your own statement, you are all for it. Therefore, by your own rhetoric, you ascribe to an "anything to make a buck" ideology. The fact that you have delineated no line to be drawn, even after I asked, confirms your ideology.
well put silverstar1, Just from a logistical vantage, it would be impossible for the U.S. Mint for example to produce tens of thousands or more of 1 type of coin and arrange them on the stock shelves in an order that would allow, weeks or months down the road, pullers to grab in order, the coins that were literally first struck. There just isn't a way for the vast majority of coins minted to be stocked in a reverse minting order. The only way it could happen (where the first struck coins can be stocked and pulled before the subsequently struck coins), but probably doesn't happen anyway, is if the coin is minted in such a miniscule number that the mint would actually take the time to have workers arrange them on the stocking shelves in reverse order so that the ones in front and on top are the first struck. "First Strike" labels are deceptive gimmicks and designed to fool people into thinking that the coins inside were actually first struck coins. It's rather disgusting to know that some of the TPG companies have gone down that dangerous slippery slope. As for milk spots, yes, they can develop after a coin has been graded. No one can blame the TPG company for that. But we can blame them for polluting the market with what amounts to scam and gimmick labels. .
Hmmmm....Interesting. The reason I say I find it best not to argue with the market is that it is best to listen to the market and what it is saying. By listening one learns and understands. I don't control the labels from the companies so I choose to focus on the things that fall within my sphere of influence and control. While I am not opposed to them, whether a label is gold, brown, blue, or has a picture of a horse makes no difference to me. I don't assign value to the label but I do to the grade and the fact that it is slabbed in general. In addition, I also support things that ethically encourage interest in the hobby. Specifically speaking of "First Strike" labels....I personally feel that that term is inappropriate as it implies something that it not determinable. However, Early Releases or First Releases is just fine by me as NGC uses. You have jumped to so many conclusions in your previous statement I don't even know where to begin....You have said I support "deceptive and gimmicky labels"....I made no such statement. You said I ascribe to an "anything to make a buck" ideology. I made no such statement(s). You then jumped to the conclusion I would support fake coins in the marketplace. I made no such statement. I always find it best not to assign beliefs to another individual. That is the case in your posts. Instead I ask for a clarification so I can understand their position more clearly. That way I don't risk assigning unethical intentions when they are not there. It feels as if you have already made up your mind and are not interested in other's opinions so I will leave it here and move on to more productive discussions. Best of luck.
