Price up for majority of MCC/Medal

I think the woman side is sort of cheesy-looking, actually.. Especially with her freakishly-long alien fingers. :lol:

Right idea, just a fail on execution, IMO.

The design simply screams "minted in 2012" -- which I don't like. I don't think the China mints really started getting their act together, design-wise, with these higher-relief pieces until 2013 (with exceptions, of course).


The dragon side ain't half-bad, though.


But don't even get me started on that pearl.. Ewwww!


As for pricing, I'm not talking about cost per ounce/gram. Besides, looks like Xi Shi has a higher premium than Happy Boy/Lucky Money (a medal which I find to be fun & highly amusing, not creepy in person, and actually good quality).

Though I certainly have a few slabbed non-Chinese old numismatic Ag pieces which cost more per ounce/gram. But I'm willing to pay up for some historic goodies.


I'm talking about price per piece..

I've got some pretty rare & highly-desired vintage collector kilo bars that didn't cost no $1,100-$1,200 USD!

Unless I got a good deal?


I just have a self-imposed limit on what I spend per (Ag) piece, is all..

We all stack/collect differently!

 

To each their own.



When I put on my collector hat, I buy what I like, not what is popular or what I might be able to flip to a sucker for a profit. When I put on my stacker hat, I buy the lowest premium blobs at a time when I believe the market is in the greatest consolidation.

In my view, vintage poured bars are a spot play...they are blobs...nothing more than that in my view. I can't see why someone would pay a premium for one that is more than one would pay for the lowest premium non-vintage bars (like APMEX or OPM bars) available. A bar is a bar is a bar...they are all spot plays.

When you write "execution" are you meaning the design or the sculpt? Those are two very different aspects. I will assume that you are being critical of the design, not the sculpt.

The stylized fluid curves of the Xi-Shi actually is a great design in my view. If it were too anatomically accurate, maybe it wouldn't work so well. Some stylized renditions of the human figure on coins and medals are actually horrendous, like the Perth Mint's Globs of O-Limp-Puss....hideous actually. I wouldn't even pay spot for it because I wouldn't want to be rewarding garbage effort / design by a mint that can do so much better than that.



To each their own.



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You can never go wrong with (half) naked woman on a coin! Just look at the Libertads.... Mhmmmmm.

 

Poor choice of phrasing, on my part.. I meant the execution of the idea.

I don't like the design -- even without the ghastly pearl. Doesn't help that I'm more of a purist.. I don't do colorized, or gemstones, or gilded, or holograms, or ruthenium, etc. Though I have considered a couple in the past, just couldn't bring myself to purchase any. And doubt I ever will.

As mentioned, I don't think the dragon side (sans pearl) is all that terrible.

Certainly not trying to disuade any buyers, or bash any owners' choices. We all like what we like.


And as for a play on spot, a lot of stuff out there is. One could argue that the World Heritage 300-grammers, for example, are, as well. Do you really think they'd have gone for the same price had spot been at $5 USD -- or $50?

They're semi-numi's. Just like some collector bars are.

Of course, one could make a valid argument that some in China are trying to force the medal market into everything becoming full numi's, via various methods. But I won't get into that further in this post.


You'd be surprised at the collectible bar market, once one dives deeper into it. Yes, there's a wide range of premiums. And there's no way I'd have been able to pick up a couple cool-looking Tier-3 & Tier-4 Engelhards, for example, during the past 6 months at the prices I did, say, compared to 4 years ago. Nobody in their right mind would be selling those for well under spot at the time, heh.

But there's also a sub-group of bars which have become fully numismatic, spot price be damned. I'm all set with that. It's amazing what some of these "blobs" go for. Even makes my jaw drop. Though it definitely exists, with the same exact criteria of pricing that some Chinese medals share.

Which, I should mention, could easily be mashed up, melted down & turned into a blob.. Could even stamp "Xi Shi" on it, if you really wanted to.

Just make sure to remove the pearl, first.. Nobody wants a tainted bar that's not 999.

 

There's no logical reason for me to think that any old poured bar that I have ever seen or know of should have any premium attached to it above what any modern common blob does. No more meaningful effort was put into the former as compared to the latter. Unlike the collector coins and medals I seek, blobs ("vintage" or modern) don't entail artists, sculptors, or artisans spending (many) months working on a design long before final versions of the design are minted. It is precisely that which is missing from blobs that is where higher collector premiums ought to be based on. That a blob is old or only a few were created is not reason enough for me to treat it as anything but a pure spot play.

The fact that someone wants to pay a high premium for a blob that has "vintage" attached to it is entirely up to them and I can't tell someone where to spend their money, all I can do is shake my head and wonder why they spent more than the tiniest fraction over spot for a poured bar. When it comes to bars, whether some people like to attach a name like "vintage" "Tier 1", "Tier 4", ad nauseum to them, makes no difference...they are all marketing gimmick names as far as I'm concerned. A bar is a blob is a bar.

The reason why medals like the World Heritage series and most other Chinese medals are not a spot play is precisely because what I mentioned about the months of work that can go into the design before it gets minted. Those high premiums for these medals are generally justified in my view. Any comparison of a poured bar to a Chinese medal like the World Heritage series or the Xi-Shi holding a Pearl is like comparing this:







to this:








The comparison ends at: both have round wheels

:lol:


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I'm sorry you can't see beauty in this rare one-of-a-kind bar..





Or this one..





Or this..





Or the many other examples out there that I'm too lazy to go dig up.


You even get to fondle them all over -- with bare hands, should you desire.


They are blobs. They were not stamped with fancy artwork, like some blobs are.

They are art in & of themselves.


Wrong message to the wrong person on the wrong sub-forum, I know..

But there are other beautiful & rare things out there, that do not look exactly like 100 or 1,000 others.

Believe it or not, there are some people out there who do not discriminate amongst various types of desirable, eye-pleasing blobs, whether they're from Australia, Canada or China, nor if they come in a box, behind acrylic, or are naked.


And should you ever stumble upon anything like in the above photos, I will happily pay you 79 cents over spot for them.

Heck, make it a buck..

 

Hey Gatito,

I never claimed that some of the blobs aren't seen as pretty by some people (I might even find a very unusual looking blob pretty), I merely stated that I can't see paying a collector premium for something that took no extra resources or effort to create.

When "pretty" is caused by surface damage (toning) or by disturbing the surface of cooling silver, that's not premium-worthy in my view because there's no measurable value added to the silver product in terms of meaningful resources or effort to create.








Quick!...there's only 3 exactly like these in the world...I must pay high premiums for these then! :lol:




To each their own.


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Seems like you might be under-estimating the time, money, effort & expertise it goes into pouring great-looking bars..

It doesn't just happen by accident. It can take years to perfect the craft. Ask any smith.


Anyway, here are a couple recent closed auctions for some normal-looking ones that will make you shake your head..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Australia-v...ive-Ounce-Perth-Mint-Silver-Bar-/171789207865

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Australia-v...One-Ounce-Perth-Mint-Silver-Bar-/171789207817


While I would love to own both, and would certainly assign a nice premium, there's no way I'd pay *that*!

However, apparently there are quite a few out there who do..

 

thanks for the education gatito. that is pretty amazing stuff right there. Thanks

 

To each their own.


With all due respect Gatito, I think you are guilty of major conflation by insinuating that there is some parity between a poured bar / ingot to a very intricately designed medal like the Xi-Shi.

The fact that some people are willing to pay a lot of money for a plain-looking poured bar / ingot means 1) a sucker is born every minute and 2) nothing in terms of the high level of labor, skill, and resources that almost certainly is lacking when making one. People are willing to pay a lot of money for all sorts of things that require no meaningful skill or high end equipment to produce. Here for example is a list: http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/most-shocking/10-of-the-weirdest-things-ever-sold-on-ebay/2/

You seem to believe that there's a very sophisticated expensive, highly skilled process that goes into making a poured bar, but there isn't from what I have seen, not for 99.999% of poured bars. So how is a bar / ingot made? Melt and pour....that's basically it...not sophisticated or expensive to do. It's basically the same skill they perfected back in the Bronze Age (about 5,000 years ago).

You can watch a video of hand poured silver on YouTube...it requires no special skill in my view and all the equipment can likely be purchased at a home improvement store. Does it require a production facility, modern mint, or foundry? No. You can do it in your backyard. It takes all of about 15 minutes most to create your average poured bar.

The only exception is if someone designs and creates their own lavish and well executed design, mold, cast, etc. Time and skill would likely go into those aspects. But melting and pouring...nah, there's nothing sophisticated or expensive about that.

Compare that to the weeks or months that is probably required to produce some of the Chinese medals....you see why there's no good comparison between a poured blob and a Chinese medal like this:






A poured bar = a blob = poured blob. It's a spot play, not worth any premium above any other minted bar in my view. If someone pays a collector premium for one, it's not worth it but that's up to them to spend their money like that. And that's not to say that one in a thousand poured bars isn't sort of pretty in a way, but that should not be mistaken necessarily for high level of skill or expense required to make it.







To each their own.



.

 

you gotta admit those bars are pretty cool

 

The bar posted are cool. However, I not willing to pay AUS6XX for 5 oz.

Everyone has their individual value system which someone might feel AUS6XX is low another might feel it is rocket price.

 

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