Discussion in 'Platinum' started by hiho, Jan 17, 2012.
Couldn't find a pic of a 1oz coin being cut in half
Con: Downturn in economies (slump in manufacturing etc.) will hurt platinum a lot more that gold. Just saying.
Good idea to diversify though.
Pro More rare than gold by many times
Pro Above ground supply limited and falling
Pro 80% + produced in Southern Africa with serious labour and energy problems
Pro - Historically price higher than gold
Pro - Production falling (unlike Au and Ag)
Pro - Price moves follow gold
The majority of industrial applications that I can see seem to be in catalytic converters on combustion engines to reduce emissions
"This is usually in response to government regulation, either through direct environmental regulation or through Health and Safety regulations."
This IMHO is bearish, but depending on your out look could be bullish
It does not reduce emissions in the common sense of the word but converts Nitrous oxides and CO to Water and Co2. So it almost eliminates the toxicity of car exhaust fumes. If we get rid of Pt, then we will be back to toxic smog and in crowded Asian cities - lots of deaths. Also petrol is far more toxic these days since we got rid of lead and had to add Toluene and Benzene (very nasty stuff) to increase octane rating. Without Pt/Pd converters the cities of the world would get a lot more dangerous. Pt is mainly used in diesel cars, trucks and diesel electric trains. If you think there will be new cars/trucks made in Asia for the millions of Asians now on bicycles or walking - buy platinum and palladium.
I would put it to you that we are in the slump now? Fukishima Disaster plus global downtrend, is Pt at its low? Also the cost to mine is the big wammie, so slowed production v slowed use in the manufacturing sector = negation
Yes I know pt catalytic converters are a good idea... BUT in tough times some good ideas get left on the weigh side
And also some countries who are heavy polluters may not see the requirement to have them, particulalry if they are selling mass produced goods overseas where cheapness is the main requirement.
I suspect the main growth for new cars and trucks will be Asia not the West. With wealth transfer to the East they will be able to afford the Cat converters. The poor people in the West will be driving the smoking wrecks. In overcrowded cities in Asia massive increases in cars will make the city uninhabitable if they get rid of the converters. Remember the smog of London - that will be like a picnic when you consider cities of SE Asia having a massive influx of cars.
Do electric cars require catalytic converters?
Electric cars burn coal or uranium not oil. No catalytic converter needed unless you got a hybrid. I think the Asians will be focused on real things not the BS conjured up by Al Gore or the other watermelons (green on the outside, red inside).
I think it's going to get worse. People are still buying Chinas stuff. People are still buying new cars.
What happens when no-one wants to take more debt on, to buy a new car? They don't make more new cars.
What happens when people stop buying Chinas stuff? China stops making new stuff.
EDIT: I should point out, I am pro-Pt, owning some myself. I was just giving you a con, when you said you couldn't come up with any
Second global financial crisis 'looming'
* by: By Veronica Smith
* From: AFP
* January 18, 2012 2:44PM
THE world's leading economists have warned of a new financial crisis that will cause even more damage than the GFC in 2008.
The World Bank has slashed its global economic forecasts because of the high levels of debt in rich nations.
The Washington-based lender had previously projected a 3.6 per cent annual global growth for the next two years.
But this has been drastically reduced to 2.5 per cent in 2012 and 3.1 per cent in 2013.
"The world economy has entered a very difficult phase characterised by significant downside risks and fragility," the twice-yearly Global Economic Prospects report said.
While financial turmoil appeared contained at the moment, "the risk of a much broader freezing up of capital markets and a global crisis similar in magnitude to the Lehman crisis remains".
High-income countries cannot count on the willingness of markets to finance their deficits and maturing debt, it warned.
If shunned by the markets, a much wider financial crisis could sweep private banks and financial institutions on both sides of the Atlantic.
"The world could be thrown in a recession as large or even larger than that of 2008/09."
Only partly recovered from that global slump, both high-income and developing countries require bolstering to withstand the impending slowdown, the World Bank said.
"In the event of a major crisis" countries could be forced to cut spending, which would further deepen the negative cycle.
Financial turmoil in both developing and high-income countries has slammed the brakes on global growth despite relatively strong activity in the United States and Japan, it said.
The global economy grew at an estimated 2.7 per cent rate in 2011, according to World Bank figures.
In addition, growth in several major developing countries, particularly Brazil and India, has slowed in part because of domestic policy tightening.
"Developing countries need to evaluate their vulnerabilities and prepare for further shocks, while there is still time," said Justin Lin, the World Bank's chief economist.
Developing country growth was revised down to 5.4 per cent from 6.2 per cent in the June projections.
High-income countries were expected to grow a tepid 1.4 per cent this year, weighed down by a 0.3 per cent contraction in the 17-nation eurozone.
World trade also was slowing sharply, with growth seen at only 4.7 per cent for this year compared with an estimated 6.6 per cent in 2011.
But the World Bank warned that even achieving these much weaker outcomes was "very uncertain", considering the risks.
"The downturn in Europe and weaker growth in developing countries raises the risk that the two developments reinforce on another, resulting in an even weaker outcome."
It also noted that oil supplies could be disrupted amid potential political tensions in the Middle East and North Africa.
High deficits and debts in the US and Japan, as well as a slow-trend growth in gross domestic product (GDP), or economic output, in other high-income countries, "could trigger sudden adverse shocks".
The World Bank projected the United States, the world's largest economy, would grow 2.2 per cent this year as it slowly recovers from the Great Recession.
Japan would emerge from last year's recession with GDP growth of 1.9 per cent in 2012.
China again would be the planet's growth engine, although at a slower pace of 8.4 per cent this year, compared with an estimated 9.1 per cent jump in 2011.
Capital flows to developing countries have shrunk by almost half compared with 2010, it said, calling on them to "prepare for the worst".
The 30 developing countries with financing needs that exceed 10 per cent of GDP should seek to refinance those needs "now", the Bank said.
It also recommended prioritising social safety net and infrastructure programs that are key to longer-term growth.
Noting a recent decline in commodity prices had eased inflation in most developing countries, the bank said that nonetheless "food security for the poorest, including in the Horn of Africa, remains a central concern".
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