Platinum

Discussion in 'Platinum' started by Ronnie 666, Sep 19, 2011.

  1. Ronnie 666

    Ronnie 666 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  2. Ag

    Ag Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Big lover of Pt over Au - agree whatch this space.
     
  3. finicky

    finicky Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Platinum is not a monetary metal. That is a fact. It has never been used by a nation in history as a money base to my knowledge. I do not count the investment metal shaped into coins - that is a bit like chocolate poured into a coin shape and covered with gold coloured tin foil. I have bought a couple of ozs platinum and only wish I had found a supplier of Pt in Australia when I tried back in the GFC, and earlier than that; but is not a monetary metal, it is just a rare precious metal. It does not have any cultural or historical 'imprint' as a form of money. Diamonds are not money either, nor is rhodium, art, antiques - but they're investable and tradable.

    Some of the problems with platinum as a money: It's not found everywhere, just a few locations. It was recognized and isolated from other elements quite late in history. And there's probably just not enough of it, oddly

    Silver is a monetary metal. It has been a money base and a trading unit for millennia and across many cultures
     
  4. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Russia used Platinum as a monetary metal for a short period of time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinum_coin

    It wasn't popular as the people thought the silver coinage was being debased with another metal. Who could have known?
     
  5. Ronnie 666

    Ronnie 666 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I am not sure what you mean. In fact Platinum has been used as a monetary metal and irrespective of that issue what do you think will happen to the price when production falls off a cliff. We still need platinum and the more people ignore it, the happier I am to buy. Gold and silver do not have such limited geographic sources and if South African mining production collapses that will not affect the supply of gold and silver anywhere near the impact on Pt and PD.
    Monetary or non monetary the price is going up.
     
  6. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    So what is the best way to buy platinum, the coins are too small for me to care about, I guess they do them in a larger size but I would not be so keen to get minted coins, maybe a minted bar. Any pics of the offerings?
     
  7. systematic

    systematic Well-Known Member

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    weird timing on this post

    i had a dream last night that i had platinum coins
     
  8. Ronnie 666

    Ronnie 666 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I get the 1oz Platypus. The Koalas were minted in larger coins 1oz, 2oz, 10oz and 1kg coin (the larger coins are hard to find these days). There are bars available but I like the Platypus 1oz.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. finicky

    finicky Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Bit pricey but I don't what else is available. The premium might be made up for later on by the limited mintage. Who knows - I don't really understand the sort of artificial rarity that is created by limited mintage then lapped up by collectors. Then again, I've fallen for it myself to some extent. I mean a 'Panda' or 'Dragon' is just a different imprint on the same stuff. It's entirely psychological value.

    [​IMG]
    Source:http://www.goldstackers.com.au/store/platinum-coins/1oz-platinum-platypus.html
     
  10. Sargeant Argent

    Sargeant Argent New Member

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    I want some but I'm not buying until I hold more gold ad silver. I also think right now palladium is a good buy with 1 oz maples a little over 700 dollars.
     
  11. Ronnie 666

    Ronnie 666 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The problem for us in Australia is the GST on palladium which makes it unattractive !!
     
  12. Aureus

    Aureus Active Member Silver Stacker

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    I don't know, never been into Platinum. If I had the money to buy Platinum i'd buy gold instead, it moves more and banks like it.
    You could make $500 on Platinum in a short period of time, sure, but that can be said for Gold and Silver as well.
    Of course that all depends on the world economy...
     
  13. 940palmtx

    940palmtx New Member

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    I own a little Pt, less than 5% of my PMs, but am looking to increase my holdings. As a long term investor, I see the potential for the appreciation of Pt.

    However, I wouldn't recommend it for speculators because the larger, much larger buy/sell spread than Au and Ag.

    In fact the main reason I don't have more is it's hard not to buy Au when it often has a higher spot and lower buy price. All the platinum I own has been the result of finding cherry picked deals.

    I only have bars, but if, actually when I buy more, I'll probably buy coins simply because they may very well increase in numismatics value as well as metal value.
     
  14. projack

    projack Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    http://www.professorfekete.com/articles/AEFMonetaryVersusNonmonetaryCommodites.pdf


    MONETARY versus NON-MONETARY COMMODITIES
    by Antal E. Fekete
    Professor, Memorial University of Newfoundland
    May 25, 2006

    Sorting out wheat from chaff?
    In my last two articles (Bull in Bear's Skin? and Ultracrepidarian Musings) I emphasized that gold and silver analysts make a blunder when they dismiss the monetary aspect of these metals. Some of them even brag that they deliberately ignore it lest their vision be blurred by considerations other than supply and demand which alone determine price. To my criticism that supply and demand in case of a monetary metal are indeterminate because of the huge speculative following as it switches its loyalty back and forth between the long and the short side of the market, they mumble something to the effect that they have a unique ability to sort out the wheat from the chaff. Such a claim is preposterous. Speculation is anything but predictable. It is downright scandalous that these analysts doggedly ignore the basis and its variation as an analytic tool. Is it sheer ignorance? Or do they perhaps have a hidden agenda, such as the desire to keep the public in the dark? I can't say which answer is worse for them.
    A monetary commodity is one that can, in most applications, be substituted by a promise to deliver it. Once endorsed, the promise can be passed on to a third party. The promise itself may take a variety of forms from a warehouse certificate through standard futures or option contracts to an ad hoc forward sales or swaps agreement. On a strict application of this definition there are only two monetary commodities: the senior one is gold, the junior one is silver. Sorry to disappoint platinum and palladium addicts: theirs are not monetary metals
    Armored cars in the streets of Geneva
    The willingness to accept promise in lieu of the monetary metal itself evaporates if a commodity exchange goes into liquidation-only mode, meaning that the shorts are exempted from their obligation to deliver the monetary metal as contracted, and the longs can realize their gains only through cash settlement. A notorious example was the decision of COMEX in January 1980 to relieve what looked like an incipient corner in silver, by declaring that only liquidation orders for silver contracts would be entertained. As if by magic short squeeze disappeared. The longs were falling over themselves in trying to liquidate positions before their profits went up in smoke. This was a highly visible effect. But there was another, if you like even more highly visible effect, the import of which only one in a million could see. As luck would have it, I was given the opportunity to see it with my own eyes. It left a deep impression on my mind. I take this opportunity to share that experience with you.
    In January, 1980, I happened to be in Geneva, Switzerland. I was visiting a private bank in the banking district. An unlikely number of banks were lining either side of the river Rhone. The office of my banker was on the first floor with a view of the river and several bridges spanning it. He looked out: "See those uniform trucks crossing the bridge underneath?" I said: "Yes, but I also see trucks crossing the river in the opposite direction through the next bridge. They are similar to those ugly armored vans of Brink's which are ubiquitous in the streets of New York and other large American cities." My banker continued: "That's exactly what they are, making bank-to-bank deliveries. But you don't often see two convoys simultaneously moving in both directions! After all, bankers have learned how to cross out liabilities at the clearing house a long time ago. It doesn't take more than one convoy to settle the difference." I innocently asked: "Actually what is it that those vans carry?" My man smiled: "I knew you would ask that. They carry silver."
    Bring home the bacon and the steak
    It took some time before the message sank in. COMEX had just declared "liquidation-only" on its silver contract. This had the immediate effect around the world that banks, traditionally accepting each others' promise to deliver, refused to honor them and went into cash-and-carry mode. The finely woven fabric of credit, at least as far as the silken metal was concerned, had been blown away in Genev and elsewhere by a local storm brewing in New York. The laconic pronouncement at COMEX paralyzed the normal workings of finance. In less time than the blink of an eye promises to deliver have become worthless. The bulk of trading instruments disappeared, leaving cash silver to do work cut out for a widely-based credit system. Exchanges do not often have recourse to such an extreme measure, because it dilutes the potency of their paper instruments. It has not been used for twenty-six years. Watch out for a dress-rehearsal.
    The big unknown is how the crisis will be resolved when it happens again. In 1980 the longs' knee-jerk reaction of "cut and run" resolved it quickly. Had they stayed the course, the outcome could have been different, with far-reaching implications for the health of the dollar. In that case the shorts might have had to do the cutting and running.
    For a non-monetary commodity substitution of promises for the real thing is hardly possible. A live cattle futures contract cannot be slaughtered and served as steak at the dinner-table; a frozen pork belly contract cannot be thawed out, made into bacon, and served at the breakfast-table. You have to bring home the bacon to eat it. Paper bacon won't do (although Keynesian economists are still working overtime to finish the grand design in alchemy of their master, to turn the stone into bread, thereby making GDP edible for humans.) A breakdown of the delivery mechanism for a non-monetary commodity is no big deal. It is a local affair barely noticed even by other exchanges trading the same commodity in default.
    But for a monetary commodity, it is a different story. A breakdown cannot be localized. It triggers a domino-effect. Trading of the monetary commodity at all other exchanges will also come to a screeching halt. Banks go into cash-and-carry mode without delay. No statistics are available showing the volume of credit instruments in use involving a monetary metal but, in view of the derivatives, it must be enormous. All this credit freezes up at the same time, with incalculable consequences as far as world finance is concerned. It is true that derivatives directly linked to gold and silver form but a minor part of the total. Nevertheless, the entire derivatives Tower of Babel is in danger of toppling. Why? Because gold and silver, whether demonetizing governments like it or not, are still part of the foundation of credit. If the credit financing gold derivatives goes, so will soon the credit financing interest-rate derivatives. The domino-effect will knock down all the other pillars supporting the credit structure.
     
  15. Ronnie 666

    Ronnie 666 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Hi Projack

    You and I have had these discussions several times and I fully support the concept of a monetary metal aka gold and silver. My feeling and belief is that platinum is a PM (on that we all agree) very rare and very costly to produce (we all agree), in short supply and with dwindling and threatened production (we all agree). My point is don't overlook platinum/palladium as part of your your investment in PM. It may not by certain definitions fulfill all the criteria of a monetary metal but it is a precious metal that is currently very undervalued. So my point is don't neglect buying Pt/Pd it as part of your PM investment strategy. Rick Rule also makes this point.

    Thanks for the input
     
  16. projack

    projack Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Nothing is wrong with diversification.
    Just pointing out here to others to see why gold and silver is different from all other commodities.
     
  17. tetradrachm

    tetradrachm New Member

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    I agree. I like palladium too - Maples and Pamp Lady Fortunas. Price has bounced repeatedly between $700 and $850 this year. I agree, low $700's is a good time buy. Pity there is 10% GST in Aust. Makes the buy versus sell spread pretty wide. Nevertheless, I believe it has good potential - I buy some when the price down. (Oh, and I have $$!)
     
  18. 940palmtx

    940palmtx New Member

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    1724 USD I wanna sell one of my cars and buy a few ozs LOL
    Oh, I only have two, kinda sounds like I had a bunch LOL
     
  19. Argentum

    Argentum Active Member

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    and this not recent they used it in 19th century 3, 6 and 12 rouble coins; the premium on those coins today are huge
     
  20. 940palmtx

    940palmtx New Member

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    1719 down 61 in a day wtf
     

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