Perth Bullion Liquidation

Discussion in 'General Precious Metals Discussion' started by nighttrader, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. GeordieGirl

    GeordieGirl Member

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    Thank you. I'm currently waiting for them to open so I can ring them. :)
     
  2. bron.suchecki

    bron.suchecki Well-Known Member

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    If it is under $5k just come into our Perth office and pay cash, no ID required.
     
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  3. GeordieGirl

    GeordieGirl Member

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    Thank you bron.suchecki
     
  4. Agnostic

    Agnostic Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Former Perth Bullion Company employee Melissa Anne Langridge jailed for stealing $30k worth of coins

    Shannon Hampton The West Australian
    Thursday, 19 December 2019 3:08PM

    A gold thief wept as she was taken in to custody after she was jailed for a year for stealing valuable coins and bullions worth more than $30,000 from her employer and selling them to pay her bills.

    Melissa Anne Langridge, 32, admitted stealing 60 silver and gold coins and bars worth $31,437 while she was working as a customer service officer at the Perth Bullion Company earlier this year.

    The court was told part of Langridge’s job was to receive “buy back” items from customers and to set up and back away display cabinets, and she periodically took the items for herself.

    Langridge then sold the gold and silver to The Perth Mint Shop — once enlisting a friend to do it — receiving thousands of dollars straight into her bank account —in amounts of up to $7700 at a time — in return.

    Her lawyer told the court her client was experiencing financial difficulty following a period of unemployment before taking up a job at the company, and was unable to pay her rent and debts.

    The court was told Langridge asked her friend to sell some of the coins because she was a separated mother and she felt sorry for her and thought she could help.

    Langridge “couldn’t resist the temptation when she saw these items there, and she could solve some of these problems that were mounting up for her”, the court was told.

    She spent the money on bills, personal debts, and to pay the overdue amount on a car loan.

    Her lawyer said she was remorseful and had been publicly shamed in the media and “associated with the demise of the company”, which she said was not the case, with its debts running into millions.

    The company was placed into liquidation in July over a $2 million debt to the Australian Taxation Office.

    Chief Magistrate Steven Heath was told Langridge had major depression, with her mother dying suddenly from a terminal illness, her cousin dying from cancer, her father being diagnosed with Huntington’s disease and suffering herself from a chronic illness herself.

    Mr Heath acknowledged Langridge’s personal suffering and that “this is not a case where you spent this money on extravagant items or a luxury lifestyle”.

    But he said “on the other hand, stealing as a servant is regarded as a particularly serious offence because it involves a breach of trust”.

    Mr Heath said the stealing happened over an extended period of time, and that her crimes were too serious for anything but an immediate term of imprisonment.

    Langridge sobbed as she was taken into custody and was handed tissues by a security guard as she was comforted by her lawyer.

    She will have to serve six months behind bars before becoming eligible for parole. Orders for the return of the items to the Perth Bullion Company and restitution to the Perth Mint Shop were made.
     
  5. bron.suchecki

    bron.suchecki Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone got an update what is going on with the liquidator and people getting back their metal?
     
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  6. bbfounder

    bbfounder New Member

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    I believe there are around 4 safety deposit box or allocated holders left yet to receive their goods back
     
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  7. dollars

    dollars Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Any stackers / Creditor know what the latest update is with Perth bullion

    Did they RSM sell anything other than the numismatic coins on grays online ?

    Grays online currently still have coins for auction now

    The web site is still up says that the premises is under control of Ben. Welsh of engelhard Nominees
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
  8. ozcopper

    ozcopper Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Ben Welsh of Engelhard Nominees, is the same Ben who ran Perth Bullion.
     
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  9. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  10. serial

    serial Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    all their remaining stock got disposed off to a local coin dealer via tender and is almost all sold now
     
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  11. bbfounder

    bbfounder New Member

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    I believe the Perth Mint purchased the bullion stock to refine and recast. It's a shame if the old cast bars and Perth Mint coins got melted. There were a heap of rare Engelhard Australia, Perth Mint, Harrington, JM etc. and several lesser known refiners including gold rush pioneering era pieces. Also lot of older lunar, kookaburas, kangaroos etc.
     
  12. bbfounder

    bbfounder New Member

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    To clarify the situation with the ATO for anyone interested or aiming to protect their business from an adverse finding please note the following.

    The ATO's final claim, and basis for winding up Bullion Bourse pty ltd, was comprised of GST not collected on items where the sale prices (premiums over spot) were above a threshold that was determined to be reasonable, in reference to general bullion sales prices and in particular, the prices that plain cast bars sold for. The threshold was adjusted for product size and metal, as follows.

    gst bullion chart.PNG
    The vast majority of products allegedly misclassified that should have been sold with GST (rather than input taxed) were bullion coins made by the Perth Mint. Note the thresholds in the table above, and compare with retail (or for that matter wholesale) Perth Mint, or Australian bullion market pricing.

    For comparison I have added the premiums as of 14/9/2020 as listed on perthmintbullion.com to the table, highlighted cells are where the listed premiums exceed the ATO advised thresholds. All coins, and 5 gram minted bar premiums exceed the thresholds advised by ATO for GST to be applicable.

    Any comments welcome....
     
  13. clear

    clear Well-Known Member

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    Good work bbfounder. That chart is very concerning (premium limits), are you sure it is accurate ? So some of dealers on here may be breaching taxation law.
     
  14. Bullion Baron

    Bullion Baron Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    If I am understanding the table correctly, which I may not be, many Perth Mint bullion products are sold (directly by the Perth Mint) above the premium deemed reasonable by the ATO?

    When can we expect the Perth Mint to be provided their bill and wound up when they can't pay it?
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
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  15. bbfounder

    bbfounder New Member

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    Yes, the table suggests that Perth Mint retail pricing is outside the price for premiums deemed acceptable for the "investment form" requirement of Investment Precious Metals for GST purposes, by certain officers of the ATO. Actually, even Perth Mint premium or partners distributors who receive best possible pricing will still be paying premiums above those in this table.

    The premium limits come directly from ATO correspondence justifying a debt and consequent adjustment to client integrated account - however they apparently are not taxation law - I can find no reference to these in GST Act or ITAA, and reliably believe that these are simply the conclusions arrived at by an ATO officer(s) as an appropriate response to an objection to an audit, that was originally four times larger (financially speaking). The original audit found that ONLY "plain" cast bars could correctly be sold without GST (investment precious metals) and explicitly stated that ALL coins were subject to GST giving over 30 points to support the argument, although many of these points are clearly made without relevant industry/topic knowledge and seemingly containing search engines results instead. All of these arguments / points were rebutted - in an objection that was formally "partially granted", all penalties for recklessness and GIC were removed and none of the rebuttals that formed the objection were challenged. The response did present the above table in reply along with the methodology used to arrive at these figures which was used to maintain the assertion that a considerable percentage of sales were incorrectly classified, and that the original audit had identified misclassifications that were not subsequently identified by the reviewing auditor.

    This directly clashes with the private rulings that I believe Perth Mint received from the ATO for it's bullion coin programme - (and renewed shortly after industry participants were being audited and advised them of potential discrepancies) unless of course the matter of pricing was in fact relevant, but not considered for these rulings. The Perth Mint are not requesting payment of GST on bullion coin sales (also for sales of certain minted bars priced outside the table limits) nor do they offer any material advice on countering effects an adverse position report brings, even to a related entity without any such adverse findings itself. This can include the loss of a distributor account with a manufacturer whose products make up the majority of a business' turnover, and other similar niceities. PM have advised they definitely do have private rulings confirming that their bullion coins are GST free or input taxed when on sold, and advise the use of the public ruling GSTR 2003/10, which is handy advice nonetheless.

    There are numerous public rulings on ATO website advising applicants they do not need to charge GST on certain bullion coins, however as an informed observation I will add that pricing of these products is invariably and necessarily by virtue of production cost, similar to Perth Mint's and above the thresholds in the table above. This is also the status quo from pre GST days when the products were sales tax-free (and so were numismatic gold, silver and platinum coins as a side note)

    An amendment to the GST act defining "investment form" is sorely needed.

    I do not think it likely that the Perth Mint will be wound up similarly any time soon, and have had discussions with relevant ATO personnel implying that certain concessions may be made to assist the company if it contacts the ATO in regard to this matter, and urging them to do so. I believe four entities have been wound up or have ceased trading due to this approach - given that this is not a trivial proportion of the total bullion dealers in Australia, I wonder if it would be a class action if all four united to litigate?

     
  16. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    What an absolute mess. It's seem clear to me to be some sort of crusade against bullion dealers (perhaps until Perth Mint is the sole major trader allowing easier tracing of transactions??).
     
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  17. spannermonkey

    spannermonkey Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    here there everywhere
    Where did this table come from ?
    None of this has been passed as law or been to court has it ?
    Apart from the ATO putting it out there .
     
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  18. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    9999999 fascist state you have there ¡¡¡
     
  19. bubblebobble2

    bubblebobble2 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I think you have gold fever mate... hv you checked in to a clinic like the rest of us? We're Au-Anonymous...
     
  20. innerpath

    innerpath Active Member Silver Stacker

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    I understand the table in a different way and I think the labels are causing confusion.

    I don’t think this table refers to Perth Mint the Company at all, it refers to Perth Mint Products sold by Perth Bullion over Spot.... let me explain.

    Using 1 oz Gold as an example, we can see at the top of the table spot gold is $2,682.11 AUD.

    If we look down the Gold table till we find 1 oz we can see that Perth Bullion sold a single ounce for $2,816.22 and the best price you could get for bulk 1 oz Gold was $2,789.32.

    Now, if we subtract spot gold from those two figures we get,

    single oz, 2,816.22 - 2,682.11 = $134.11

    bulk oz 2,789.32 - 2,682.11 = $107.21

    these are the exact figures we find highlighted in red under the heading referring to Perth Mint.

    but these are not the premiums Perth Mint the Company is charging for its 1 oz Gold, these are the premiums Perth Bullion is charging for its 1 oz Perth Mint Products over Spot


    But having said all that, how is this even possible because Perth Bullion closed ages ago and Gold was nowhere near that price?

    please explain?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020

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