Perth Bullion Liquidation

Discussion in 'General Precious Metals Discussion' started by nighttrader, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. bron.suchecki

    bron.suchecki Well-Known Member

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    Likely. I remember a case once where I had a US client ring us up and he knew the account number, all account details, every transaction but he wasn't listed on the account name or as a signatory. It was some trust or done via an accountant, I can't remember exactly but the story he told us was that it was his metal but he did it through this trust/accountant, problem was that the accountant was in jail for murder and couldn't issue any instructions to us to liquidate the metal. He was obviously set it up trying to avoid the US govt knowing he had metals. Unfortunately we had to say no luck as while we thought his story was correct, we couldn't risk acting on his instructions and not the authorised signatory in our records.
     
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  2. PMstack

    PMstack Member

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    I hope you are right Sammy, but also don't think it is prudent to rely on hope
     
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  3. MM Legal

    MM Legal New Member

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    We confirm the liquidator is seeking further orders from the Court on Thursday, 5 September. At that hearing he will seek an order to the effect that he is acting reasonably in requiring a SBH to sign the proposed deed so if you wish to comment on the terms this is your chance to be heard. Also he is seeking a different cost compensation for the delivery of large box holders ($3,300) so if you have comments on that quantum you should speak up. Our contact details are:-

    Ben Morton
    Director
    Mendelawitz Morton Commercial Lawyers
    Level 2, Suite 7, 20 Kings Park Rd
    West Perth WA 6000
    Telephone: 08 9481 8811
    Email: [email protected]
    https://www.mmcl.com.au/
     
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  4. Sham Bolic

    Sham Bolic Member

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    To me the most dissappointing aspect of it all was the near total lack of solidarity at the beginning - almost no-one was anywhere to be found - did 95% of the "precious metals community" really not even think to get on the internet and find forums like this to mount an organized challenge? it reminds me of the 1804 Castle Hill Rebellion where a handful of men and their dogs stood up to the Rum Corps Red Coats. The apathetic majority still just accept the self-proclaimed authority of a tiny minority. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_South_Wales_Corps
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  5. Sham Bolic

    Sham Bolic Member

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  6. Askari

    Askari Member Silver Stacker

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    Sham, an organised front wouldn't have changed a thing. It is absolutely reasonable that sdb holders pay to access their metals. If you think about it, why should creditors of the company pay for the liquidator to deal with other people's assets? Or should the liquidator work for free?
    In any case, I don't think the Court would have ruled in any other way, even if 450 sdb holders made an appearance at the hearing.
    Now regarding the increased cost for large sdb holders, I'm not sure what that is about. Haven't read the request for directions.
    I just want to get people to see it from all sides before screaming how unfair everything is. It's a company liquidation. A lot of pain to go around...

    P.S. No affiliation with Perth Bullion or the liquidator, just familiar with the insolvency industry.
     
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  7. Sham Bolic

    Sham Bolic Member

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    1stly - the safety deposit box holders OWN property was stored there - it was NEVER the company's assets - this was a completely separate side of the company unrelated to the retail side that the GST was applied to - so you've got it ass backwards - why should 3rd party asset holders pay for the liquidator to deal with other people's GST debts? Answer that and stay fashionable! 2ndly - all the pain was completely unnecessary - brought on by the ATO arbitrarily slapping an ambiguous interpretation of GST rules that purportedly were never applied before to this company OR to any other bullion retailer. All for what? - absolutely NOTHING positive has been gained by anyone here - not even the effing ATO who ignited it all - as there wont be anything left to get their GST from. Just mindless destructive bureaucrats!
     
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  8. Sham Bolic

    Sham Bolic Member

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    This has done massive damage to Perth's and even Australia's reputation as a precious metals hub - everyone i've told overseas has been gobsmacked and will not be buying any more Perth Mint product ever again - they'll source from Switzerland or US from now on - Australia has blown it here!
     
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  9. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    who gives the ATO the authority to claim GST when bullion dealers does not need license to operate ???
     
  10. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Tax legislation gives them authority. They are the Australian IRS that collect GST from all goods and service providers, registered or not.
     
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  11. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    but gold and silver are my property, they are not goods or services
     
  12. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    They're not claiming GST on the stored property, they claim that Perth Bullion didn't appropriately collect GST from their precious metal sales and owe the Government $$$$$. This caused PB to go into liquidation, and thus everyone's stored assets in PB vaults are in the hands of the liquidators who seem keen on rorting the owners. $350 was an acceptable if not high fee. $3300 is highway robbery and should be met with all possible resistance.
     
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  13. gsswan

    gsswan New Member

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    Is there a link for an article on what PB got done for as I keep seeing people mentioning GST?

    I have noticed ABC Bullion mention GST in their Barring Charges

    https://www.abcbullion.com.au/barring-charges

    Example
    Assume you have 1 troy ounce of gold bullion in ABC Pool Allocated Product, worth AUD $1,500. Assume that at the same time, ABC Bullion is selling a physical 1 troy ounce gold cast bar for AUD $1,530.

    In this case, the differential between your holdings, and the physical cast bar itself, is AUD $30.

    If you wanted to convert your 1 troy ounce of ABC Pool Allocated Product into a 1 ounce ABC Bullion gold cast bar, then the fee you would pay would simply be AUD $30, plus GST.
     
  14. Number 47

    Number 47 Well-Known Member

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    I know that investment grade gold and silver are exempt form GST in Australia.
    But I'm yet to school myself up on capital gains tax on it at an investment level.
     
  15. Askari

    Askari Member Silver Stacker

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    Sham - you didn't answer my question. Who should pay for the liquidator's time to facilitate sdb holders to get their stuff (which btw includes identifying what's there, communicating with sdb holders & arranging collection)?
    Didn't get it backwards, the fee isn't going towards the liquidation of the company, but towards the time involved in dealing with 3rd parties getting their assets. Who else should pay but said 3rd parties?
     
  16. dollars

    dollars Member Silver Stacker

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    Similar to the rare coin company liquidation out of the assets of the company! Please read the information regarding the windup of this company for some background
     
  17. Jason1

    Jason1 Active Member

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    your confusing dealer license from being a registered Australian Business,
    If you dont pay the correct GST to the gov and they Audit you then you lose.
    I honestly dont get how an owner of a business doesn't know the laws around what is GST free and what isnt. They did sell and buy items that dont get slugged with GST that is for sure, but they sold and bought plenty of items that did incur GST. But every business owner does need to know what is charged tax and what isnt so you avoid this happening, Every body who has run a business knows that laws and tax systems change all the time and its something every business needs to keep on top of knowing, ignorance isnt an excuse if it is infact true as they claim they didnt know. lol which i find hard to believe, seriously as if a company like that is that ignorant, Its more of an attempt as an excuse to stay out of jail for tax fraud would be my guess.
    they played dumb and they lost and they played dumb and lost at the expense of their clients.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
  18. iceblue

    iceblue Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Jason but you have no idea of the ruling against PB, they were not playing dumb, they were trying to defend themselves doing what all the other bullion dealers do. Understanding the ruling against them will give you a better picture of the circumstance surrounding their liquidation.
     
  19. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The ATO decided to change their interpretation of what bullion is, meaning stock that PB had been buying GST free and selling GST free were GST liable. As they had not
    Its standard CGT like any other investment. As value increases you pay a tax on the increase in value.
     
  20. Jason1

    Jason1 Active Member

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    From what they claim they were buying scrap metal and thought it was under the same category as bullion, which is clearly not the case.one requires the collection of GST the other doesnt.
    The rules of what is considered bullion have been very clear cut for a long time, its on the ATO website.
    they were playing dumb.

    The ATO has been trying to crack down on this sort tax scam that has been going on in the bullion trade for years which is usually done by small gold buyer companies, you would have thought Perth bullion would know better and kept on top of the GST thing to avoid looking like one of these GST scammers.

    https://thewest.com.au/business/gst/ato-blitz-on-1-billion-gold-gst-scammers-ng-b88929944z

    https://www.smh.com.au/business/aus...-gold-industry-tax-fraud-20170402-gvbvbq.html

    so they are either really dumb as they claim and dont understand the tax system or they were trying a scam like above out and got caught.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019

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