Perth Bullion Liquidation

Discussion in 'General Precious Metals Discussion' started by nighttrader, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. Itsme

    Itsme New Member

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    Thanks Ernie!
     
  2. bron.suchecki

    bron.suchecki Well-Known Member

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  3. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  4. King kong

    King kong New Member

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    If you don’t want the return of your possessions to be tied to the determination of ownership of 450 SDB’s – months and months…

    I'd like to hear from anyone or any group who would like to enter into discussion about seeking a court order to force the liquidator to return our possessions to us.
     
  5. King kong

    King kong New Member

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    I’m a SDB holder. I want my stuff back, like now. I’ve been reading these threads and making investigations. Insolvency practise is governed by ASIC and the corporations act 2001. If you feel powerless and want to do something, go to ASIC’s website and make a complaint about the liquidator not doing their job properly. Big brother will breath down Mr. Cribb’s neck if enough public concern is shown.

    RSM however would be in breach as a prudent liquidator if they start to release any part of the ‘insolvent estate’ so this is why they cannot make any undertakings as to a timeframe. What they CAN do is go to their meeting of creditors and recommend that people’s private possessions be returned to them.

    Unfortunately they say that it’s a priority for them and that protocols are being established however ‘as soon as reasonably practicable’ means that we are on their timeframe.

    The way to *force* them to commit to a timeframe is to make an application to get a court order. One individual on their own would be unlikely to be successful in convincing a judge that aside from a life or death situation the judge should think there is a case to tell the liquidator to ‘hurry up’

    However if a group of individuals brought about a ‘class action’ type application to a court, grouped together, the power can often go to the people. We just want to secure our goods. This might attract a judges’ attention and a possible outcome might be that a court order could bind them to nominating a date by which they would return the contents of the boxes, with disregard to other’s boxes where ownership was still under dispute. Shared legal costs are a bonus.

    We just need to keep beating them with a big stick, and these are the ways that I have found could work. Please get in touch if interested.
     
  6. King kong

    King kong New Member

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    A note on Insurance:

    Good news for some. The underwriters are going to honour the insurance 10k on each and every box. This doesn’t help you if you have 300k in there…..however the broker is sure that additional insurance can be purchased and honoured even though the boxes are ‘under judicial attachment’. Ie the liquidator has possession and they are attached to the insolvency until third party ownership is unequivocally established, the contents of these boxes can then be detached from assets available to creditors but not necessairily returned.

    Many things that the liquidator said in the recent circular are just wrong which is interesting as they have a duty of care. Throwing us all into mayhem however buys them time and limits their liability if we look after ourselves and spend money on insurance in case they stuff up.
     
  7. bron.suchecki

    bron.suchecki Well-Known Member

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    FYI Joshua from About.Ag website has started a page on this case http://about.ag/PerthBullion.htm

    He is US based and has covered in great investigative detail the various US bullion dealer bankruptcies.
     
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  8. PMstack

    PMstack Member

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    Hi KK,
    Let's say you buy that insurance and there's some wrong doing.

    If it's before the liquidator took over aren't you still uninsured?

    I've been informed by GCIB any cover offered for new policies will only cover fire and peril i.e. forced entry or violent robbery. So if the liquidators dog eats your nuggets that will not be a good result for anyone except the dog and the insurer.

    Best result here is for the liquidator and insurer to get their s**t together and announce what happened to all the premiums we paid.
     
  9. Abossy

    Abossy Active Member Silver Stacker

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    It's all speculation, when I spoke to Gladstone they mentioned in not so many words that the premises may be even more secure than it was before, presumably due to limited access. The fact they are still offering insurance leads me to believe some initial inspection was done to ensure the boxes were still secure.

    It doesn't matter anyway the only people who know what the FK is going on are obviously not helping the administrator...I'm thinking that we do need to get our collective shit together (SDB holders) and seek legal advice sooner rather than later. The longer this drags on the murkier the waters could get and the more stress it's going to inflict.

    I personally will wait for the updated circular tomorrow and take it from there.
     
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  10. King kong

    King kong New Member

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    I re-iterate.

    If you don’t want the return of your possessions to be tied to the determination of ownership of 450 SDB’s – months and months…

    I'd like to hear from anyone or any group who would like to enter into discussion about seeking a court order to force the liquidator to return our possessions to us.
     
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  11. Bullionme

    Bullionme New Member

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    We have a telegram group for whoever interested to join & discuss in private - strictly for casualties only.
    Please inbox me for links.
    Also, check your inbox. I may have sent you the links already.
     
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  12. SilverSale

    SilverSale Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    In Perth Mint's new product AAAU (paper gold), it has this delightful clause inserted;

    "Gold Corporation may suspend or reject the exchange of shares for physical gold, which could affect the market price of the shares."
     
  13. Graeme Smith

    Graeme Smith New Member

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    Also sad to see them go mainly over GST issues on collector coins I believe. These have been deemed collectible investments not bullion which is exempt and are actually similar to stamps or paintings. Warning! Misunderstandings over the need to pay GST on these items and also the sale by private individuals with significant above GST threshold values have caused parties to come to grief with the tax department.
     
  14. iceblue

    iceblue Well-Known Member

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    You believe wrong. Nothing to do with collector coins, they have always charged GST on them and proofs, other bits and pieces as well.
     
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  15. Captain Kookaburra

    Captain Kookaburra Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    There is no misunderstanding.... It was a deliberate ploy by the ATO to shut down bullion businesses as they were embarrassed by losing almost $1 Billion AUD in GST revenue to carousal fraud.

    SGB and Perth Bullion did not participate in scrap buying, and hence the ATO used a different ploy to shut them down. These businesses forewent the revenues that the dodgier businesses were more than happy to take. They were crucified anyway.

    Again, if the ATO applied the same ruling to the rest of the industry, the Perth Mint's own retail shop would either be in liquidation, or receiving a WA govt. bailout.
     
  16. fishduck

    fishduck Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Captain, if PB is not in the wrong, what justification do they use to collect GST on items that don't have GST on it and do they expect PB to pay that out? And would PB actually have to pay GST on an item that is exempt from GST? If its found that the ATO is in the wrong, wouldn't they have to give PB a tax refund?
     
  17. Captain Kookaburra

    Captain Kookaburra Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    They have no justification. They say "Fight it in court!". They are Bullies.

    It is ridiculous to expect a company like PB to charge GST on coins it bought from the WA Govt, without GST. Where everyone else in the country can quite happily sell the same coins without GST.

    The ATO does owe PB a tax refund.

    The liquidators should be seeking this refund for their creditors. And if they wanted to increase their own paycheck, they would do so.

    Unfortunately, they don't want to upset the ATO gravy train.

    1930s Germany anyone?
     
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  18. iceblue

    iceblue Well-Known Member

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    And our ruling was not just about coins, they specified that Pamp bars should also have GST - basically because they have a picture on them. Go figure!
     
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  19. Abossy

    Abossy Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Well that would do it wouldn't it...ATO applies GST to retrospective bullion sales would explain the initial tax bill, remember it was initially much higher than $2 mill.

    Not sure the justification they used here...my understanding was that investment grade bullion was always GST exempt.

    Who's next? Gold Stackers?
     
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  20. herkyderky

    herkyderky Active Member

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    just going by that alone a lot of dealers could be in trouble......citygoldbullion.com.au states clearly on their website "All PAMP silver bullion is GST-free." just as an example
    I wonder how it would affect pricing in Australia if the ATO was to wipe out most of the "to the public" dealers making it harder for the average joe to buy PM's
     
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