Your analogy is completely and utterly wrong. The government is not spending on their credit card but using our bank balance. It is our tax dollars, our rates, our stamp duties etc which are funding their drunken orgy and worse they use our funds to leverage up debt upon debt upon our unborn children and grandchildren. Credit card debt is not passed on as an inheritance to your children. Labor and the putrid Greens cannot blame this on John Howard, sorry mate.
I'm not defending anyone. What I am saying is that all these ideas that the govt (any govt) is capable of good economic management is a myth. They can encourage a debt-fueled binge. That's it. The reason they do so is because all the rules and regiulations and other money they are extracting from the economy over the decades is weighing it down. Govt's take your money and give you easy debt in return. It's their one and only trick. Labour desperately tired to keep the whole thing going with the boost, but couldn't because debt levels were too high, so also had to spend money to keep the illusion going which, as is well known, govt spending leads to massive corruption as pointed out. Anyone who thinks Howard (or any politician) is some kind of wonder, I can only think, watches way too much TV.
I can't believe that I am defending Howard, but I am. He ran as solid, scandal free and functional government as we have ever had. He made errors, bad policy, did terrible things taking us into an illegal war, but he knew how to run a budget and left the national coffers in a good solid state. I don't think that the government can be blamed too much for personal debt. Both Parties support negative gearing, but they do not set interest rates, they do not run adverts encouraging people to take out credit cards. It is the banks, the real estate agents and the credit card and finance companies, the car importers and department stores with their interest fee periods that encourage personal debt. No one can blame the government for that. But history is clear - Howard left the nation in excellent shape in terms of sovereign debt, (and I know that he did this during a period of prosperity, but Labor would not have done so, history shows us that as well), and the Labor Party has pulled us under in a few short years and taken us form prosperity into sovereign debt.
I really do wonder at times if past discussions on this site really do seep into people's thinking and stick. We're supposedly stackers, a breed of people who are above the common rabble in terms of ideology and knowledge of the manipulated economic and political markets to control the sheep. Yet here we are debating whether the left or right wing of politics is better than the other.
+1 When did there become 2 sides? Which side will stop the wars? Which side will let the market go free? Which side will let banks fail? Arguing over whether to send refugees to Nauru or Malaysia is a perfect example. Same policy, different location.
People that think that either is better than the other just don't understand that there is a common master above them all. Howard's legacy: mandatory detention, participation in the war and torture policies of the USA, a housing bubble, replaced government debt with household debt, the greatest taxing government to that time, formalised the nanny state with government programmes for middle class welfare. Rudd-Gillard legacy: mandatory detention, participation in the war and torture policies of the USA, reflating the housing bubble with foreign speculators, turned government surplus into a spiral of debt with brain-dead programmes, extended household debt, the greatest taxing government to this time, extended the nanny state with more government programmes for middle class welfare and added in corporate welfare. And actively lobbied for the war against Libya that resulted in more death and mayhem, paving the way to WWIII. Get over it. Politicking for one over the other is just plain insane.
Philosopy aside, there is a difference between average government and appalling government, and it does effect all of us. We currently have an appalling government and the impact of that government is very real.
Our government has a very long way to go before it become truly appalling. The current lot in power are pretty average, but either side could easily be an epic failure if things get really tough.
I blame the westminster system for a lot of it. The system itself is also appalling. How we ever put up with a system for so long where an incumbent minister is forced to vote among party lines instead of the best interests of his or her electorate is beyond me. We need a revolution.
Revolution would be fruitless in the current social climate. So much of the population in blind as to what goes on behind the curtain's that it would allow a select few to just reset the "trap".
Funny seeing people argue which is better, labor or liberal LOL Have you guys not learnt nothing, there both bought and paid for by the same private interests.
Of course he would say that. Just what the bankers what, an RBA manipulating and the general populace giving back as much money as they can afford to the banks by either paying off their loans earlier than obligated or building their deposits. Meh, well under the mattress is looking even more attractive now.
Do I have to spell everything out? If labour had been in 2000 they would have done the same thing. It goes like this... situation (internet boom over) recession imminent howard: what's the problem? how can we stop the recession? howard lackey: people aren't spending enough money. there's not enough demand for products and services. As such many companies are not taking on people or laying them off. h: so how do we get cash into people's pockets? hl: we can drop much of the taxes so people have more spendable income. Also, drop rules and regulations that fix prices. This will allow supply to more accurately meet demand which will result in lower prices. h: Are you nuts? You're talking about largely getting rid of govt. hl: that's the only way to get more cash into people's hands absent some big new tech revolution. h: you must have something else. hl: well, people can also spend credit. If you can convince them to take on more debt they will be able to spend that and companies will then be able to sell their stuff and jobs will be saved. h: how do we do that? hl: credit has to be loosened. made easier to obtain. If we relax lending standards, provide some money to people to encourage them to buy a house, for example, as that's the biggest thing they borrow for. Put some subtle poltiical pressure on the Central Bank to cut it's rates. That should do it. h: then let's do it. hl: the increase in supply of credit will lead to much higher house prices though by the law of supply and demand. h: great people will think they're getting richer. Aussies as a whole will be richer and I will proclaimed a great economic manager. hl: your crown, your majesty. It worked because debt levels were relatively low and there was a lot of space for them to go up. They are now extreme. Good look getting people to do the same thing at this point. Labour would have done the same. Possibly they would have spent more money and left the country in deficit. We'll never know. By the by, this is also why the average property bull is a complete dingbat if he thinks there's going to be some massive increase in debt levels similar to the last decade. Printing money isn't going to save them wither. The vast majority of printed money will go into commodities.
All parties are chiefly elected by the promises they make yet once in power seldom do they keep their promises. Do this in business & you'll end up in court & or jail (unless your a bank or financial institution type). It's about time the politicians were held accountable, scorning reports in the press / media or on the house floor makes no difference as they simply don't give a rats. Sent a few to jail & see if it makes a change. Beginning to think old Ned had a point. I don't trust or like any party over another, they all do as they like whilst telling you "this is what the people want or are to stupid to know they need".
I'm sceptical of the whole motive behind Walter's comments. Just as I'm sceptical of everytime a JP Morgan exec makes a comment on the Australian economy. I find it difficult to understand that because Australia avoided the devastating economic collapse which so many other nations faced after 2008 because of the mining boom and a healthier debt/GDP ratio than most other advanced economies., it sets us up for an even greater collapse than other countries??? Europe and the US "forced to make long-term economic changes in recent years" ??????? But Australia hasn't had to that so we are in greater peril?????????? I'm sorry, but what frakkin Europe and what friggin US on what farkin planet is Walter's referring to????????? And that trash actually gets printed by at least 2 of Australia's major newspapers without even a question mark from the editorial desk?????????? Actually i'm not sceptical, I'm hostile.
Just wait to the election then you will see they are both nanny parties...Give them sheep something to stop them baa baa baaa... baaing.My mob bids $61 billion...My mob will give you $67 billion...No they won't! Yes we will. You're all a mob of swine with your noses in the trough and if you've had enough of hand outs, will you kindly bug... off! Are none of you concerned that JP Morgan is going to take up more business activities in Australia? Can we not see in our own stye..We on SS see the BS that is USA, British and European politics. Are we different in Australia? I'll make a prediction..Whoever wins the next election in Australia, won't win the one after. I don't care who wins because I believe they they are all the same. Now back to JP Morgan..I wonder which party in Australia it would support??? END OF RANT Regard Errol 43
I'm not really concerned i'm in finance myself i wouldn't mind working for JPM. Besides the big-4 banks will need somebody to market MBS's to overseas investors soon unless they want to be left holding the crap when things take a turn. I suspect JPM are expanding in Aus due to the explosion which will happen in the carbon market when it starts.
