[News] Panda Fight Club - 2010 Panda vs 2010 Lunar Tiger

Discussion in 'Modern Chinese Coins & Medallions' started by yennus, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. Elemental

    Elemental Active Member Silver Stacker

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    One of the first search results for completed listings for 2010 silver tigers (on my iPhone) is a Buy it Now 28/7 for $47.44 with 3 pounds of postage total about A$52. Similarly, I can search for 2010 pandas and the first one that comes up is a Buy it Now 25/7 $44.22 with $7.70 postage total about A$52.

    As I said these comparisons ripping numbers out of eBay are pointless. Also, as I pointed out before and using a site sponsors group buy price (which are a very good deal for all coins) the issue price is around 6.5% more than maples and other similar bullion coins. Which is why I would be interested in this comparison, if the increase is more than this % over time, and how much more.

    I'm a lunar and panda fan both. I have wasted time looking up two search results on eBay and won't waste more time doing so. As per another post there are ebbs and flows in the silver market for individual coins and prices fluctuate. If you want to use eBay as a price guide you would need to use multiple search terms, get the last 30 - 50 results (as a minimum) and then take average and median results. If you've got time go ahead I would be very interested in the results. IMO it'd probably come out even or close to it.

    Do you hold very large numbers of lunars you are looking to sell? Do you hold pandas? I'm trying to understand the motive behind your posts and stance. Is it that you are annoyed by someone else's opinions? Do you disagree with the facts themselves or the way they are presented?

    I'll state again and clearly that I really have no position one way or the other. I have a small stack (it's growing with every pay cheque) but in total I've got about 65 oz silver and 2 oz gold and this is split between lunars and pandas evenly.
     
  2. Szag

    Szag Member Silver Stacker

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    This is the crux. I've heard a lot of talk about how "altruistic" yennus is by teaching and informing about the investment potential of a new product. All well and good. As I've said before, I own both lunars and pandas. However there's a fine line between informing people and flogging a product like a fishmonger at a market. The first time "the graph" was presented was informative, the second and subsequent times shows desperation. So instead of coming across as if you've sold your house and pension to buy pandas and now need to get them off your chest. How about trusting that the generally more informed people on this forum received the generously donated seed of information and did their own research and if they want to buy pandas (or lunars) they can make their own decisions. To be honest yennus may have lost customers purely because of his overwhelming bias.
     
  3. dccpa

    dccpa Active Member

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    Personally, I have over 500 2010 tigers and over 120 2010 pandas. My pandas are for sale (I am in the US), but my lunars are not for sale. I will limit myself to at most 1 panda per year in the future, but I will buy large amounts of future lunar issues. People post about the large Chinese population compared to the number of pandas minted. So what? They weren't buying many of them when they were minted in the hundreds of thousands and now there will be several million pandas minted each year. Lunars are my first choice in coins and Canadian Wildlife Series coins are second.

    I check the prior sales on ebay and it clearly shows that the 2010 tigers are selling for more than the 2010 pandas. The 2011 panda sale that yennus posted was a bidding war between two newbies and when the winner sobers up, that the sale may be cancelled. Three things are hurting the bullion panda prices. 1. There are a large amount of rated/slabbed panda coins being sold. The regular unslabbed pandas have to compete with them. 2. There are a lot of counterfeit pandas. Based upon information supplied by a dealer here last year, it is likely that many of the slabbed pandas (and other slabbed coins are fake). 3. despite what yennus states, it is harder to tell a fake panda than it is most other fake coins. I am sure with experience and education, it can be made easier, but most buyers are not going to go to take the time to educate themselves. Shortly after I bought my 2010 1oz gold Panda, intelligencer posted about his experience in buying a slabbed gold panda coin that turned out to be fake. I felt tremendous stress and to this day, I am not sure whether or not my coin is genuine. That is not a feeling that I want to experience again.

    Both pandas and lunars are beautiful coins, but lower premiums and greatly lower mintages (300k vs. 6 million) will give the edge to lunars in future years. The dragon coin may be an exception to the rule about lower premiums on lunars, but the general rule will hold.
     
  4. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Don't be silly Bullion Baron, I have explicitly listed the data upon which the comparison is made in the first post.
    http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic- -lion.html - Latest Tiger Price
    http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic- age-1.html - Latest Panda Price
    http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic- andas.html - "WTB 3 2010 1oz silver pandas for $60 each plus postage"


    Sure, I don't use the Ebay measurements for many reasons. You are free to use Ebay as your measurement, but since I don't often use Ebay to sell, I don't quote their measurements.

    I said "Pandas always win".
    To which you said "Which is clearly not the case."
    To which I provided a graph and ample examples, which is clearly the case.

    I have used the Silverstacker measurements as the basis of my examples because we are on Silverstackers. But you are free to use Ebay measurements if you desire.

    The data based on Silverstackers shows otherwise. I hope when you go to sell your Tigers on Silverstackers you can achieve those prices. Fortunately for me, I achieved my Panda prices.

    If you don't go off topic I won't either :)

    I list all my sources and let people make up their own minds. I have provided links and and sources. It's not about making rules and manipulation. The Panda market is huge, it doesn't require my manipulation to grow. I didn't make Pandas the best bullion investment coin, the market did :)
     
  5. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Hey Szag, discuss the topic, not the person.
     
  6. renovator

    renovator Well-Known Member

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    Geez yennus your copping some flak for being passionate about something :rolleyes:
     
  7. goldpelican

    goldpelican Administrator Staff Member

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    [​IMG]

    Don't take the Fight Club topic title literally folks!
     
  8. petercamperdown

    petercamperdown New Member

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    A compromise to make you all happy :)
    [imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/1456_tigerpanda.jpg][​IMG][/imgz]
     
  9. Elemental

    Elemental Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Pandiger? Tigander. I laughed at that pic. Nice work!
     
  10. silverstalker

    silverstalker Active Member Silver Stacker

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    <comment moderated>

    I disagree with the chart.
     
  11. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    It's a fake!!!!!!
    It's a fake!!!!!!
    It's a fake!!!!!!
    It's a fake!!!!!!

    Run for the hills!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  12. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    ahahah :)
     
  13. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    hope no bear nor tiger got harm to produce the picture.
     
  14. Lunartic

    Lunartic Member Silver Stacker

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    I do think that the Pandas will be better investments in the long run.

    But I do have less sense than money, so I'm willing to take some Lunars off peoples hands
     
  15. Blockhead

    Blockhead Active Member

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    if silver ends up where we all expect it to for the reasons that we all expect it to, then premiums ultimately will be meaningless. Close to spot as possible at today's prices will make the largest gains at the end of the road.
     
  16. petercamperdown

    petercamperdown New Member

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    You can't argue against logic
     
  17. Chillidog

    Chillidog New Member Silver Stacker

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    I have both and like both the same. By having both I diversify my holding, I hope both go up.
    I think it's too close to the manufacture year too tell just yet which will perform better. Time will tell
     
  18. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I can tell BB, you've even lost the ability to spell :) Or you got fat fingers.
     
  19. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Hi Bullion Baron, I have used the actualized prices in Silverstackers to substantiate my case. In these cases, the Pandas have outperformed the Tigers.

    You can claim that ebay is a better metric, or whatever, but it doesn't change the original statement of "So with two independent sources on silverstackers (an auction and a WTB) showing the strength of the 2010 Panda to be valued at $60-$65. The Panda once again stands undefeated."

    Take your frustration somewhere else thanks. Please move on.

    I'm not saying Lunars are a crap investment (I have them too), I'm just saying that Pandas are better :) I have even said "I am surprised that the 2010 Lunar Tiger is no pussy cat. It has actually put up a better fight than the ASE, Maples and Roos."

    I have both Tigers and Pandas, and at the time of acquirement the premiums for them both were equivalent. If you paid a less premium for a Tiger, good for you :)
     
  20. madmuley

    madmuley New Member

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    The 2010 panda in notorious for being a spotted bear, that is a large part of the reason for the $55-65 prices on ebay. A clean 2010 panda is getting harder to come by month after month. Unfortunately the 2010 Tiger once sold for nearly $80-90 per coin. The panda holds a steady price and is much easier to sell in this market. They are both solid investments, as both coins have a higher ceiling than their floor.
     

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