[News] Panda Fight Club - 2010 Panda vs 2010 Lunar Tiger

Discussion in 'Modern Chinese Coins & Medallions' started by yennus, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    :lol:

    Nah mate, I'll just ring my mate krudd. Thanks.
     
  2. bennybbc

    bennybbc Member Silver Stacker

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    As an Australian I'm proud of the offerings from the Perth mint. I already own plenty of stuff that has come out of China. I'd prefer to support an Australian mint and an Australian dealer. Not mention how many fake pandas are around these days.
    The 1oz Dragon will sell out in record time and KO the 2012 Panda in the first round. Ding Ding! :)
     
  3. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    @ bennybc Got nothing to do with supporting an Aussie mint or Aussie dealer. I'm not into that.

    @ lionfish Ohhh. Google translate is worrying me. Got this as the first translated passage:

    Last orders are more things to be with, to choose good friend of the hair, things that are hand-picked off the owner, we hope that their baby is receiving the shipment will be good - so more slowly. Any delay, please come to thank you for your understanding ~ ~

    Reminds me of listening to my mother's jokes she used to tell us in German. The punch line is lost in translation. Many thanks lionfish. I do appreciate the link. Ta.
     
  4. fishball

    fishball New Member Silver Stacker

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    lol yeah ran it through Google translate...FAILED.

    It basically says:

    Source: fishball
     
  5. Pandacollector

    Pandacollector Active Member

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    FWIW, the 2009 Chinese Year of the Ox has been a spectacular performer. The round version sells for $400-$500 USD, while the flower-shaped coin is close to $700 IF you can find one. The laggard is the fan-shaped Ox at around $200*.

    Best wishes,
    Peter Anthony
    http://www.pandacollector.com

    *Prices are from the Panda Pricepedia price guide.
     
  6. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I don't know whether to laugh my ass off or condemn you fish :)
     
  7. fishball

    fishball New Member Silver Stacker

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    Hey Peter, good stuff on the prices :)

    But they were comparing the Perth Mint Lunar Series 2 Ox which is around $50 US in value, much cheaper than the one you are talkin about :)

    I gave you a translation didn't I? ;)
     
  8. ninteno

    ninteno Member

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    Peter is talking from the two oxes onto the lift side of the picture.

    [​IMG]

    Why the oxes, spezially the folwer shaped, has such a great performance ????

    I paid 43 for the flower shaped one and i did had no good feeling on paying such a high
    price for a single 1oz silver coin. The colored 1oz ox also has performed very weel.
    The 5 oz rectangle bar and the kilo are much better in performance. I had the chance to
    buy the 1kg for 970, but it was much much to high in my opinion.
    It was a fault.

    So to decide what to buy in future - Pandas or Lunar ?
    Decide 50:50 :) and you will not being dissapointed.

    Pick up the chinease Year of the Dragon will be very difficult.
    Prices for this coins will light up your hair.

    ninteno
     
  9. jpanggy

    jpanggy New Member

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    as long as the price is a bargain, why not give some panda love?
     
  10. SilverBaron

    SilverBaron Member Silver Stacker

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    Does Jim Rogers buy Tigers though?

    Nuff Said
     
  11. SilverBaron

    SilverBaron Member Silver Stacker

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    That may be true.

    But there is like 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 Panda per Chinese Person.

    Nuff Said.
     
  12. fishball

    fishball New Member Silver Stacker

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    Just wondering if the awkward auction ending times of the Pandas had anything to do with the terrible prices...

    I bloody hate the auctions that end at like 9:30am in the morning... or 3am. A)$#$#)$*#($*

    I have observed a crazy price difference for auctions ending on Weekdays at 10am and those that end on Saturday nights. Like 60-100% higher price on slabbed (MS69) pandas when auction ends on the weekend.

    Example:

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2010-1-OZ-SILVER-PANDA-CHINA-10Y-SHANGHAI-MINT-NGC-MS69-/190558038717 ($203)
    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2010-1-OZ-SILVER-PANDA-CHINA-10-YN-PCGS-MS69-PROOF-LIKE-/400231612724 ($64.75)

    ps. If anyone is willing to part with 2010 1oz Pandas for $55 I'll buzz 4 :) [preferably includes shipping]
     
  13. fishball

    fishball New Member Silver Stacker

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    You're right, too tired LOL

    They're different coins, the 200+ one is definitely way more expensive.

    But yeah I believe end times influence auction outcomes a fair bit. Good to see Perth Mint lunars holding out against the Panda on its own :).
     
  14. Elemental

    Elemental Active Member Silver Stacker

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    I think the imminent release of the dragons will also be affecting the prices on the tigers at the moment. No argument from me that Lunars make a great investment though. I'll be getting as many dragons as I can afford on release.

    I've said before I personally don't see a lot of value in making direct comparisons - but it would be interesting to see the same comparison you have done and add in phillies, maples and ASE's.
     
  15. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    1. I don't recommend people use Ebay for buying Pandas.
    2. I don't recommend people use Ebay to sell Pandas (use Silverstackers - less fees also).
    3. I would recommend anyone who can get a Panda at those prices to get them (preferably not on Ebay).
     
  16. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The 2010 Panda vs 2010 Lunar Tiger is BASED on SILVERSTACKER stats.

    I don't use the Ebay measurement for many reasons. However, people are free to use the Ebay measurement though. I prefer SILVERSTACKERS stats because I primarily buy and sell on silverstackers.

    I personally recommend using Peter Anthony's measurements from the monthly Panda PricePedia. It's not free, but it's worth the price.

    However, if you want to use Ebay measurements, the following 2011 1oz Silver Panda just smashed the 2010 Lunar Tiger :) $87 at present.

    http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220822012768&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

    Are you going to continue to deny that the Panda is outperforming the Tiger?

    Can you find me another common bullion coin that could be purchased in 2009 for $19 that today sells for $90? The 2009 Panda did exactly that. This is not misninformation, this is real information.

    Even better, the 2000 1oz Panda was sold at similar price to other bullion coins during it's release, and now look at its price, it's worth over $500!

    Perhaps the lunar dragons will achieve the same result... but so far nothing has beaten the Panda.
     
  17. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    And that is why you fail to see the obvious.

    Pandas are sold at near bullion prices, but they achieve numismatic prices very quickly.

    Just get yourself a copy of Peter Anthony's PricePedia and you can learn and see it for yourself.

    1. Pandas are sold at near bullion value.
    2. Pandas after 1 year gain numismatic value.
    3. Pandas that are older than 1 year sell for significantly higher price than most other coins. These Panda posts track how high or low the Pandas compare to other bullion. Tigers perform better than other Lunar coins. Perhaps the dragons will change the trend and beat the Pandas... but that remains to be seen :)

    This is not just my view, but this view is shared by people all over the world. I am not the one buying all the Pandas and driving up the demand, obviously there are enough people (millions of them) that are wanting these Pandas.

    Have a listen to Peter Anthony "The numbers show that if you had bought a new 1-ounce silver Panda each year from 2000 through 2010, the cost would have been $334. At the end of may 2011, those coins would have been worth $1,418. Besides a tidy profit, this chart illustrates one other nice quality about these popular coins. Look at what happened to the price of silver in 2008: it declined. While the price of Pandas was affected by the economic events of the time, too, it recovered quickly enough that on a yearly chart there is actually a slight increase in value."

    [​IMG]
    Source: http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=22093&et_mid=511838&rid=2216902

    I'm not saying your Lunars are a bad investment. I actually have a few myself, but unless you blind yourself, you can't deny the facts. Pandas are PROFITABLE! :)

    Would you honestly want a Lunar Ox versus instead of a 2009 Panda if you could go back in time?

    "The numbers show that if you had bought a new 1-ounce silver Panda each year from 2000 through 2010, the cost would have been $334. At the end of may 2011, those coins would have been worth $1,418."
     
  18. petercamperdown

    petercamperdown New Member

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    The debate that is going on here has hit the fruitless stage. In one corner you have the Pandaphiles and in the other pandaphobes. I hate using that term for those who just don't like Pandas for whatever reason. But no matter what both sides of the debate write I doubt anyone is going to change their mind. Pandas in my opinion are a great looking coin. And if you are lucky enough to get your hands on some at grood prices you are usually going to make a good profit down the track. That also applies to the Lunar tiger. So I can't see why the debate needs to go on and on, just so the same thing is said over and over. I for one do lean towrds the Panda. The reason is I have been lucky enough to get some great prices on some 2010 Pandas, BU and PF. Also having a reliable source helps. But even now that I know more about Pandas then I did six months ago I still have that nagging feeling in the back of my mind about counterfeit Pandas. And lets face it there are many FAKE Pandas out there. Can anyone tell me if they have ever seen a fake Lunar Tiger? I doubt it very much that anyone can. Anyone buying Pandas really needs to do alot of homework and chat with those that have the knowlegde before jumping in. They are both great coins and for me you can't go wrong with buying one or the other. The smart ones out there would be buying both. Anyway thats my little rant. Have great day :D
     
  19. Ouch

    Ouch Active Member

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    Hear hear Peter. As for the fakes, buying pandas are like eating fugu fish. You know it could be bad for you with one wrong move but you still want to take the chance and eat it.
     
  20. fishball

    fishball New Member Silver Stacker

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    I think all yennus was trying to say was that eBay is not really a good place to gauge market prices and I have to agree.

    It's definitely interesting on eBay tigers are beating 2010 Pandas but as yennus aptly pointed out, 2011 panda went nuts and is 100% overpriced.

    I also don't agree with yennus that SS is a good place to gauge market prices because I've bought 2010 Tigers on here for less than $45 before :p.

    +1. This whole pandaphobe and pandaphile argument is just off putting. I am panda neutral and see pandas only as an investment (well I like 2009 Pandas but that's it and won't sell my liver trying to get them).

    Everyone just needs to understand there are different types of investments out there. Different time periods cause different prices as well.

    Remember when Andean cats were king @ $80 and everybody and their dog wanted one? Well they're not even worth 60 now (2010 ones).

    When yennus posted his post, 2010 pandas were definitely outperforming 2010 Tigers both on SS and eBay. But now, it seems like it doesn't.

    Things change and both sides should just understand that they are both correct.

    TL;DR: Pandas are a good investment, just don't go all in and expect parabolic returns. Lunars too.
     

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