So far I have beeenn unimpressed. But im not in it for the short term panda-wise. I've had this discussion with another forum member but I thought Id' share. Just today I went into a coin store and had an interesting experience. These guys claim to be a numi mob. It's even in the name of thhe store. I phoned regarding some 10oz bars. We agreed on a price and I went straight down. I had some slabbed pandas knocking about in my pocket and I took them into the shop with me. I showed them the slabs and asked if they were interested. They asked. "do the pandas come from china?" I replied "of course" to which I got some laughter and I was told "oh they are fake" I looked at my slabbed pandas. Ebossed slabs, hologram stickers, registration numbers that check out and in them a selection of 2010 and 2011 pandas I am quite familiar with. Another customer came to look and they agreed that chinese pandas are fake and the slabs can be bought for 2 bucks to make them look legit. WOW, I put them back in my pocket and took it with good humor. I wont be back though...these guys have been tools twice before so I guess this is 3 strikes. Dan
Australia is woefully behind on the panda front. With the exception of yennus and AEL I cannot think of any dealers who actually deal with Pandas (non-2011/2010) or Modern Chinese Coins. Not surprised at all at the sheer ignorance of that store owner. At the end of the day we'll be the ones laughing when we hold the pandas and they hold the royal wedding coins.
But you would have to admit though that a prevailing misconception about chinese coins in general and pandas in particular would limit liquidity in the present times. Which is the answer to the OP's question.
Shortly after dipping my toes in the panda pool I knew liquidity would be an issue in the short term. Testing the waters in a store full of numi coins, great battles, wildlife in need, deadly and dangerous etc. Was an eye opener!
Unfortunately thats the local market we are in and either the market perception changes or we have to change to suit the peculiar characteristics of our market
True. Good point, Pandas do sell ok on eBay. However it takes time to sell/auction, no cash, gouged by paypal and there is a record/trail left.
sell the right coins to right person. few days ago I list some Numismatics in trade page on this froum with SPOT price, no one care with them, so I back to our local dealer shop and sell to him easily with a very high price. one of them is rare he told me after he made payment.
It also depends on their area of comfort and they are obviously uncomfortable in this area. I must say I was as well, however like anything you educate, increase knowledge and this knowledge then enables you to find some bargains. Which BTW I haven't found yet but I am far more aware of them and will be looking out for them in general. I have ordered some 2012's possible the worst year to start but I got a good price so I am happy either way. Now to keep looking and then picking up the wins here and there. If there main turnover is PM stuff then what do you expect. Bit like Thucy and his European collection I would not know what was worth money and what was just junk.
I really, like REALLY, could care less about liquidity in Chinese coins.. how is a $500 1 oz Ag coin ever going to be very liquid? They are poles apart. True there are fakes, granted, but it's become the stuff of mythological proportion to the uneducated. I have had similar experiences Dan and my advice is to ignore it, as I'm sure you did. It's a good exercise nonetheless to see what public reaction is to Pandas. I'm positive that certified, mint sealed Pandas would be treated as fake to them. Well, the proof is in the numbers... the reality is that they scrounge around with a (manipulated) spot price and we've moved into a whole different market. One where true PUBLIC DEMAND, not bankers, hold all the cards. That said I still hold bullion as I know most Panda collectors on this forum do. Can someone show me an example of a fake slab? I've heard about these fake slabs, would be nice to actually see one...
Not sure exactly your angle but I think you'll find the majority of fakes originate outside of China. If you are caught counterfeiting coins in China it's the hangman for you. Yennus is the man to speak to on this topic, he's on the ground in China.
Got in at the last moment with Maggie, not sure when I will see them but that's cool. BTW I have now secured what I think is my core position in Silver and to me Pandas are the speculator in my stash. I also keep a very strong range of Numis Aussie Pre-Decimal, Lunars and wanted a variety Pandas looked like a good area to research and get into. I think we are years ahead of the masses. Give it another 10+ years and people will be saying WOW how did you afford all those Pandas If 0.1% of the Chines population become Billionaires and also coin collectors it could be a fun ride. Not sure how many that works out to be but I reckon there will be a few of them ?
Hey Dandan, thanks for sharing your experiences, much appreciated! I had a very similar experience in South East Asia with my Kooks and Sovereigns. Everyone's experience will vary, but for me, Pandas by far have been the most liquid, not just in Australia (primarily NSW and VIC), but also in Malaysia, Singapore, Israel and China. That is why I made the switch from standard bullion to Pandas. I needed something that I could sell quickly (in Australia, or South East Asia), and preferably something that had greater returns than just spot. I know exactly what nicwinner is saying. It is really sad that a lot of numismatics just don't sell well (E.g. Sovereigns, half-sovereigns, Kook privies, etc) in my experiences compared to Pandas. (Perhaps numismatics sell much better in Europe, but I don't have any personal knowledge of that market) I totally agree with Fishball too... I think about 1800-2400x 1oz of Pandas were sold in just a couple of days by Maggie... followed by over 200x 1oz 2007&2010s recently. More 2007&2010s could have been sold, but I had to close it since my pockets aren't as deep (I'm only a lowly collector, not a dealer) and I need to front the money first (since it takes ages to get money sent from Australia to China). It is likely everyone's experience will be different depending on the people they know and who they are selling to.
25Grizzlies has interesting points. In my experience moving around, I have not encountered fake Pandas in China for exactly the same reason listed by 25Grizzlies... if you get caught peddling fake Pandas (or Yuan) in China you are very likely to die. As he is alluding to, fake bears are possibly/probably being made in China, but these are primarily made for export since few ever surface in China, but show up on Ebay very often.
Since the group buy I have just completed my 6th monster box of Pandas 3 days ago. I will say no more, I leave it to you to decide Dan, I wouldn't worry too much, Iam the first one to say " Silver is Silver" and still Chinese silver pandas turn over at a good price.
Thanks for all the input guys. It was a good exercise and interesting to see how some others react to pandas. Especially seeing as I had a previously inspected graded bears on offer (which should account for something) and that they weren't hanging from the inside of my coat with a bunch of "rolex" watches lol.
