Gold coins or bars for sale to Joe Sheeple?

Discussion in 'Gold' started by parallaxerror, Dec 8, 2010.

  1. parallaxerror

    parallaxerror New Member

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    ok no doubt another repost but...

    I'm after opinions on what the wise stackers out there feel about whether bullion coins or cast bars are the best option, when considering the premiums on coins.

    Basically Im focused on the long term hold and sell to Joe Sheeple f2f when the masses realise the need the real stuff.

    Are the premiums paid now for bullion coins going to pay off down the track when it come to selling to a suspicious or uneducated buyer, with concerns of counterfeit bullion.

    Well I've kind of just answered my own question but I'm interested in others opinions on this.
     
  2. hbBear

    hbBear New Member

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    Hi Parallaerror

    I have lost countless hours of sleep over this very issue.

    My conclusions are as follows:

    - PM Coins (despite the extra surcharge incurred per ounce) are presented beautifully and due to their plastic casing do not scratch unlike bars therefore I initially viewed this as a better option.

    - When individuals purchase coins they are often influenced by the year model and design of the coin i.e. a buyer is more likely to purchase varied coins such as lunars, kooks, koala's or maples rather than just buying x50 of the same year model kook. Therefore when it comes time to sell dealers/buyers may not be motivated to purchase multiples of a year model coin that is not popular are difficult to move.

    - However this same principle is not applied to bars. A 10oz PM bar is a 10oz PM bar regardless of the year it was made. The only difference being the degree of scratches and presentation of the bar. Just take a look at many of the Aus dealer websites, they all have varied PM coins available however most are on backorder for PM and PAMP bars.

    Therefore I believe bars are the better option as they represent an investment in silver without the buyers decision becoming clouded due to their personal preference for a coin design or year model.

    - In addition I have tried to stick to common brand bars such as PM or PAMP. For example the SilverTowne bars are very nice to look at however very few Australian dealers supply these bars therefore future resale is likely to be limited to the general public. Most Australian dealers sell/buy PM bars and coins therefore you have increased sale options to the general public and multiple dealers.

    Hope this helps, I'm interest to read other stackers opinions
     
  3. Blockhead

    Blockhead Active Member

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    when it's seriously 'game on' i imagine that there will be somewhat of a physical shortage so these issues may potentially be not so important.
     
  4. Peter

    Peter Well-Known Member

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    I buy coins because they are more difficult to counterfeit.
     
  5. Austacker

    Austacker Active Member

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    I don't believe "ALL" of the premiums on "ALL" of these issue will hold. History already tells you that with series like the Reef Series started well but died in the end. A lot of them have sold under buy price. That is but one example.

    Bullion coins you will still have the premium but it is still a measure of price you can always use the OM price as a guide and this is what makes it easier. You can not compare a Reef series to a new Bush Babies (another heading in the same direction) series and say they are the same. Market demand will drive these prices.

    Lunars are another good example, I picked up a 2008 Proof for $68 in my locals cabinet. That was the issue price I think so in 2 years it hasn't changed. Yet if I had purchased say 3 Kooks back then I would be in front roughly say $110 value, plus I would have 3oz rather than 1oz ? Of course there are always exceptions.

    I still go back to what is your goal. If it is to get as much as cheaply as possible then bars. If you want a little mix Bullion Coins. If you want to speculate a little and try some of the special releases, make sure you do your homework. If you want to collect because you like them that is fine also but it needs to work in with your goal. These change all the time so you need to be flexible as well.

    Good luck and happy stacking.
     
  6. chimpanchu

    chimpanchu New Member

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    I think the issue of whether Joe Sheeple will understand Gold or not is becoming less of an issue as gold bull market progress.

    Remember, in a MANIA, Everybody and their dogs that knows a thing or two about economy understand (or will understand) Gold and Silver. Just look at today, you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone who are not into Real Estate or contemplating buying one. This is what will happen to Gold at the end of the bullmarket. Gold will become the Chatter of the day!

    Those Joe Sheeples who knows nothing about gold (who are heavily into Real Estate) will get a rude awakening and LEARN about gold very quickly!

    I always recommend people to have a portion in Coin and a portion in Bars.
    In case of gold, it is not a problem to go ALL in Coins. Because of low premium in gold.
    Whereas Silver is a different story, the less coins compare to bars are the better.
     
  7. parallaxerror

    parallaxerror New Member

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    Very well put into perspective, thanks.

    I guess you really just have to ask yourself "given the choice would I rather buy a minted coin or a cast bar off some guy I didn't have any reason to trust " particularly if prices are going crazy due to financial shtf.

    I know my preferred option would be coins in this situation. The other problem though, is if the market is flooded with fake coins, would you allow an acid test on your precious coin?

    I guess, as chimpanchu mentioned, a combination of both would be the best option, allowing a buyer to choose their preferred form.

    The other issue is fractional coins, much higher premium now but better liquidity when selling to buyers with limited means in financial shtf scenario. The premium paid now might be well worth it in regards to future liquidity.

    Anybody have contradictory opinions on this?
     
  8. parallaxerror

    parallaxerror New Member

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    *double post*
     
  9. Stedlar

    Stedlar Active Member

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    I bought 1kg bars for store and 1oz coins for trade. 1kg coins just didnt make any sense. The next denomination would be 1oz gold, preferably sealed in a Perth Mint securicard type package.

    That covers trade and storage as far as I can see. I'm not interested in numismatists.
     
  10. white-metal-man

    white-metal-man Member

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    no brainer.......bars - buy you the biggest bang for your buck!!!....bullion coins....ok for trade....and great for liquidity...........numismatics........will IMHO generally be of little use except for silver content as most people getting late into silver will not really be bothered about the rarity/uniqueness of any particular coin.....especially in a SHTF scenario.....
     
  11. adrenalin

    adrenalin New Member

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    Perth Mint / Government issued coins also have a face value attached to them.
    So they will not fall below this price. (even though it is a low price)
     
  12. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    In every case where the fiat collapsed, gold and silver testing kits appeared in almost every (heavily secured) goods trading shop and trading chunks of gold and silver became the norm.

    I remember reading how in Argentina in the 2001 crisis, people would take goods to the counter and remove a few links from a gold chain, have it weighed and tested and adjust the goods against the value. If SHTF you won't have to worry about any form of bullion being accepted.

    In terms of 'must get in the amazing PM market' mentality. Anything that clearly says X oz of 0.9999 pure, will move quickly - and 1966 50's and to a lesser extent 1927 florins. After that I'm not sure.
     
  13. LovingtheSilver

    LovingtheSilver Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Im splitting my holdings... i love lunars so series I 1/20-1oz set and 1/20-2oz series II set will be enough coins for me... then bars such as PAMP Lady Fortuna (1oz-10oz size) or Perth Mint carded.
     
  14. Free market

    Free market New Member

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    I'm avoiding premiums as much as possible. (But I will only buy from reputable dealers)
    Bullion coins that are cheaper than the source at the time of purchase is good.
    Bars as close to or cheaper than the source good, too.
    Proof coins for stacking - no way for me.
    Proof coins for a special collection - ok for me.

    Japanese bars that I have seen don't come with cards or assay certificates. But they are Gold and are from the prominent bullion seller. I can always sell them back to them, or get roughly spot abroad for them. I see some bar brands as having a higher premium so probably won't get any.
     
  15. goldpelican

    goldpelican Administrator Staff Member

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    Something I want to look into is the $500 limit exemption on CGT applicable for coins - and whether it covers bullion coins.
     
  16. pmfiend

    pmfiend New Member

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    Yes, if someone knows a tax advisor (not auditor...) maybe you can find out about that. I doubt that bullion coins qualify, but since some of perth mint's coins are limited mintage, who knows?

    Since we don't pay gst on it then I would guess the tax man will be wanting his [second] slice though the cgt.
     
  17. BBQ

    BBQ Member

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    I'm still not sure why they do this. Nobody goes by the face value.
    In other words I'm not sure why my silver kookaburra says 1 dollar on it.
    I'm not about to go to the local shop and spend it on groceries :)

    Any insight?



    To answer the topic's question, I don't think bar or coin would matter much to me, if I were in a position to buy. But counterfeit stuff is a worry since I have no tools to test whether it's real or not. I'm not sure how bullion bars are easier to counterfeit; is there any reason for this? I've read it here a few times recently.

    At present I have a very small amount of gold in bar form and silver in coin form. Right now I prefer the bar because I don't have an image of the queen on one side to ruin an otherwise fine piece of precious metal :) Therefore, as far as Australian releases go, the bar might be better for buyers with similar aversions :)
     
  18. parallaxerror

    parallaxerror New Member

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    Oh come on Queeny's ok. Such a lovely old stick.

    On that note, Canadian coins have her image as well and they even have their own flag.
     
  19. BBQ

    BBQ Member

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    Very true. You should have seen my disappointment when I found out :)
    Seriously though, a sexy kookaburra really probably makes her look worse than she is. I LOVE the Kookaburra. It is great.
     
  20. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Alex Jones called Liz a criminal of the elite and I was momentarily affronted. She's a semi-hero of mine for how hard she works and how she takes her duties so seriously. Helen Mirren made her very sympathetic I thought. lol. I'm a monarchist by default since I can't imagine the sort of no-hoper Les Paterson type we'd end up with as a 'president'.
     

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